Pharyngula

Posted by: Coleslaw | March 14, 2010 8:02 PM

Sigh. Why do people use the word "vagina" to refer to the vulva? (Not your mistake, PZ, theirs.)

Posted by: Milawe | March 14, 2010 8:13 PM

Re hard: see also chopper and 'harden the fuck up'

Posted by: echidna | March 14, 2010 8:24 PM

Rorschach,
Conservative in hindsight, yes. But they planned the largest atheist gathering in the world so far (so various presenters were saying).

It was good, there is hope, and I hope the next one is even bigger.

P.S. - it was nice to meet you in person.

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal | March 14, 2010 8:27 PM

PZ:

I am, apparently, a Hard Atheist.

Perfect! :D

Coleslaw:

Sigh. Why do people use the word "vagina" to refer to the vulva?

I'll add a sigh to yours.

Posted by: Pope Maledict DCLXVI | March 14, 2010 8:32 PM

Probably this 2 minute clip is IP-address limited to viewers in Australia, but the disappointing coverage by the ABC continues to form with this muddled piece that went out on the 7pm Sunday news here in Melbourne, with lots of religious imagery and the catch-phrase "preaching to the converted"; FFS can we have some originality people?!

The Anglican bishop of Melbourne (yet another Philip) almost gets more soundbites than Dawkins, Peter Singer, and Jason Ball combined, and there's a couple of particularly fatuous vox pops from idiots in the congregation at St Paul's Cathedral (e.g. “Atheism is no more than the latest new golden calf”). I suppose it's because they've got to kow-tow to the religious audience that watches "Compass" later on.

Posted by: Peter McKellar | March 14, 2010 8:47 PM

Maybe instead of "soft atheist" the term "flaccid atheist" should be used? To paraphrase an old joke - "A hard atehist is good to find" ;)

Whilst the press coverage was pretty poor and in most cases seriously biased, the conference itself was excellent. I will start saving now for the next one so I can get a full weekend pass the day tickets go on sale.

The networking aspects, getting to put faces to handles etc was invaluable.

My hope is that a number of attendees made contacts with others that will ultimately further enlightenment goals and lead to some real political change. With the like of Burke, Fielding and Bishop on the ABC's Q&A; session with Dawkins, it is glaringly obvious that our government must be swept aside by electing responsible, ethical atheists (and other secularists) into positions of power.

If any of you have a reasonably unblemished record and are capable individuals, consider running for (Federal) office. If you are already known and respected within your community, all the better. If the last thing you want to do is be a politician, you are probably the right person for the job. Join a party, form your own or run as an independent.

This applies as much to any nation as it does to Australia.

Posted by: Brian English | March 14, 2010 9:00 PM

If the last thing you want to do is be a politician That's me. I couldn't stand the press raking through my not all together stellar youth and early adulthood. Nor my present familial relations. Someone else can have it.

Posted by: Randomfactor | March 14, 2010 9:09 PM

He gave us the Ten Commandments of his faith, and I think I could follow them.

So, give already! The rest of us are wandering in sin out here!

Posted by: Brian English | March 14, 2010 9:48 PM

I personally would relish the opportunity to vote for someone who has lived a little.
Now if I'd lived a little instead of being a insipid prat who committed many stumblings I too would relish the opportunity to be voted for. :)

Anyway, it would be good if we could get politicians who weren't pious gits churned out by the political parties. Unfortunately the only non-party pollies are celebs who don't turn out so well either.

Posted by: Kraid | March 14, 2010 10:07 PM

Coleslaw wrote:

Sigh. Why do people use the word "vagina" to refer to the vulva?

Well Church of the Smiling Vulva doesn't have the same assonance. They could probably still claim Church of the Lovely Vulva... although looking at the illustration on their website, maybe "lovely" isn't what they're going for.

Posted by: Utakata | March 14, 2010 10:34 PM

"(Dawkins succeeded in provoking gasps when he referred to the pope as a Nazi.)"

...well as far as my understanding, the current Pope never really recanted and/or repented about his stint with The Hitler Youth, so it maybe actually true. :)

Posted by: F | March 14, 2010 10:40 PM

Pope Maledict DCLXVI @ 10

for the link so kindly provided, those outside Oz can use an Australian proxy to view this. for example, this one worked:

http://123.201.122.78 on port 1080. You'll have to configure this in your browser. (Don't forget to discard after use.)

Or better, get it here:
http://s231.photobucket.com/albums/ee50/NGC224isM31/?action=view¤t;=obfuscated_name.flv

Renamed to keep it from being pulled down right away (if anyone is looking.)

Posted by: Insightful Ape | March 14, 2010 10:47 PM

Wait, somone "cautioned" against the wish for religion to fade away?
I would gasp at that.

Posted by: WowbaggerOM | March 14, 2010 10:51 PM

Just got home and people are still talking about it - awesome!

I had a great time at the convention, too - and was so glad to meet all of you who were there; I'm sorry if there was anywhere I didn't. But what's weirding me out now is that while reading the posts of those I met I'm hearing them in your actual voices...

Posted by: Pope Maledict DCLXVI | March 14, 2010 11:01 PM

Hi Wowbagger,

glad to hear you've gotten home to something approaching normality, and I hope the rehearsals won't add to the fatigue! Feynmaniac had some words to say about you in this thread, whereas I'd be tempted to say you’re more like this guy, except that you’re younger, more handsome, and not quite so tall as well as being an atheist ;-)

Philip

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | March 14, 2010 11:11 PM

Good to hear from you Wowbagger. Kel and BoS still need to check in. Wish I could have made it, but a trip down under and back in 48 hours is not very practical.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | March 14, 2010 11:23 PM

Hi Nerd *waves*

I'm here and alive, I juts didn't get home until after midnight last night and straight back into work this a.m. so haven't had time to hit Pharyngula. My wrap up of the convention:

1) Dawkins was fantastic
2) PZ was awesome and a most gracious "leader of the flock" to all the Pharyngulites present
3) The lads are way more gorgeous in real life than even their photos reveal.
4) I'm nominating my liver for March's Molly for it's demonstrated fortitude over the last 4 days.

Posted by: Charlie Foxtrot | March 14, 2010 11:29 PM

vulva" is a way prettier word. Rolls off the tongue and lips quite pleasingly.

...

Posted by: Noel | March 14, 2010 11:31 PM

I am, apparently, a Hard Atheist.

I can't help thinking of Frank Zappa's Harder than your husband (to get along with).

Posted by: Ceryle | March 14, 2010 11:42 PM

I really wanted to be there, but my excuse is now 6 weeks old, and sitting on my lap as I type. I have now got 2 white, male, currently beardless offspring. If the first is anything to go by, an enquiring mind will hopefully develop, too. (I refuse to label them as skeptics or atheist, or anything else - they will have to figure that out for themselves)

I look forward to 2012, and hope it will be a bit bigger (to fit all of us who couldn't make it this time)

Posted by: jcmartz.myopenid.com | March 14, 2010 11:59 PM

After all, you are all planning to go, right?

I would go if only I had the necessary funds.

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, Tai Dam lum Pun | March 15, 2010 1:11 AM

What the hell? I didn't click on this post.

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | March 15, 2010 2:57 AM

Rorschach

It's Monday again in Oz, and that means, it's time for a new round of Q&A; !!

Oh, and I forgot to mention, it will have Catherine Deveny !!!

..got a fairly good idea what you're doing after the show then.

Posted by: Theatrix | March 15, 2010 3:31 AM

I must say I had a blast at the convention... every moment of it.

And I now realise what an honour it was to attend the Saturday night dinner and be seated at the table with Bride of Shrek, Rorschach, Wowbagger, Kel, a couple of others, and PZ himself. I used to be a lurker, but I think I'll be posting more now! :)

Posted by: Janet Holmes | March 15, 2010 4:16 AM

Both I and my 17 year old son had a great time. Met a bunch of pharyngulites, had my photo taken with PZ, and listened to a lot of great talks from people who all had something interesting to say.

I very much hope there will be another one in two years! Perhaps we could get Tim Minchin next time. And Matt Dillahunty too.

Posted by: trikeabout | March 15, 2010 4:24 AM

Well, I completely stuffed up my weekends and tickets and wound up missing the convention entirely. So I spent Saturday afternoon a mere few hundred metres along the SouthBank at a beer tasting, which was probably a bit closer to a religious experience (at least after the 20 different beers I tried...). Not very impressed with the media coverage. Hope they give it another go in 2 years - I'll get tickets as soon as they're announced instead of faffing about.

Posted by: Theatrix | March 15, 2010 5:23 AM

Bride of Shrek - take a look here :)

Posted by: Del | March 15, 2010 6:50 AM

Has anyone mentioned how amazing Taslima Nasran was? Her speech was dignified and heart-breaking and so very effective - I have a great deal of respect for her.

As for the four insanely attractive speakers, my man-crushes have been fortified. AC, Richard, PZ and Peter. Mmmmmmm.

Posted by: thrawn369 | March 15, 2010 7:14 AM

From Bolty, Australia's favourite trollumnist
"Not a very brave man when it comes to criticising those religions which preach less civility:

When asked when he would be willing to criticise Islam as he did Christianity, the response was pragmatic. “I personally believe we shouldn’t go out of our way to do things that will get our heads cut off.” To the Islamist he would make it clear that this reticence is “because I fear you. Don’t think for one moment it’s because I respect you.”

Shouldn’t Dawkins give Christianity more credit for its civilising influence, when he counts on that very thing for keeping him safe to abuse? "

Given the way Christians used to act (and still do in parts of Africa as I understand) I think whatever "civilising influence" western culture has is due to rationalism and the enlightenment, not the faith responsible for genocidal wars from its founding through the seventeenth century (and maybe beyond but I can't think of any examples)
I'm not scared of Islamists. I personally know more about christianity because christians have more power here (they even say The Lord's Prayer before parliament every day). Sure, in person I'm not the hardest atheist, but I feel just as embarassed telling a fundamentalist Christian that I think he's mentally ill as I do a fundamentalist Muslim.
I'm not sure if I should make more of an effort to learn about and attack Islam, on the one hand it seems a bit gauche to go after immigrants when they haven't done me any harm, on the other hand going to uni is supposed to be a broadening experience and it would be great to see waves of ex-Muslim doctors and engineers returning home to spread enlightenment values.
Then again, Islamic Awareness/Support Israel/Free Palestine Week is coming up again, and if they try to proseletyse to me again I won't be so polite. Maybe I should see if the Godless Club wants to do anything about it...

Posted by: Rorschach | March 15, 2010 7:22 AM

But the whole Nazi thing is neither funny nor clever. Like all able-bodied young males in Germany at the time, he was conscripted into the Hitler Youth.

For the love of god Catherine Deveny, please consider my #23, or don't discuss it if you weren't there.

Posted by: John Morales | March 15, 2010 7:38 AM

Walton, Ratzinger swore an oath, too.

Compare¹:

"Ich gelobe meinem Führer, Adolf Hitler, Treue. Ich verspreche ihm und den Führern, die er mir bestimmt, jederzeit Achtung ung Gehorsam entgegen zu bringen." (I promise to be faithful to my Führer, Adolf Hitler. I promise to him, and to those leaders he has assigned to me, to give them my undivided obedience and respect.)

with

I, [real name], swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will, as in duty bound, honestly and faithfully defend Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, in Person, Crown and Dignity against all enemies, and will observe and obey all orders of Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and of the generals and officers set over me. So help me God.

¹ http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=3029

Posted by: Walton | March 15, 2010 9:39 AM

JM, that's a highly offensive comparison on every level.

And yes, Ratzinger (most likely) would have sworn an oath to Hitler, but he did so under duress; all able-bodied young men were conscripted into the Hitler Youth, with no exemption for conscientious objection. Thus, his oath is certainly not binding on him in any moral sense.

Posted by: Walton | March 15, 2010 9:49 AM

You also did failed to indicate that the Monarch is no longer the moral source of authority to go to war anymore. No mention of Government or Parliament at all.

Actually, in legal terms, going to war is a "royal prerogative power". British troops can be deployed overseas on the authority of the Crown alone. In practice, however, this authority is exercised by the government on the Crown's behalf.

Because of this, there is no legal requirement to seek authority from Parliament before going to war. The Blair government chose voluntarily to call a vote in Parliament on the invasion of Iraq, but they did not have to do so.

This is obviously not a desirable situation, and I'm in favour of changing it. But at the moment, the legal position is that the Crown has sole authority to go to war and to command the forces, this right being exercised in practice by the Crown's ministers.

Posted by: jamesbspiller | March 15, 2010 10:50 AM

I wish I'd been able to have connected with more people here and then at the convention, though it was also great just to start conversations with anyone.

I met echidna (Hi. :) and PZ was great to meet in person and was just so approachable. (Thank you.)

I didn't see the protesters but I wish I had met them, you know, 'for sport'.

If there's another in two years (or whenever) I hope we can all do it again.

Posted by: echidna | March 15, 2010 4:41 PM

Al B. Quirky:
It was "ok" for Aussie classmates to taunt me about being a Nazi (after all, my father had been in the Hitler Youth, just like Ratzinger). So I don't particularly feel that this is all about Ratzinger, the guy who protects pedophiles vs the Muslims.

Dawkins did not make a snide joke about a pious holy man - it was a fumble in referring to a man who goes by several names. For many reasons, Ratzinger deserves contempt, although perhaps growing up in that time and that place is not one of them.

Dawkins is old enough to have some idea of the complexity of WWII events. I don't believe that he was trying to have a cheap shot at Ratzinger, but he has left himself open to that charge. i do suspect that Dawkins does not hold the Pope in particularly high regard - and nor should he.

As for Muslims, the challenge is to change the "respect for religious views" meme enough so that free speech is restored. This issue was explored in depth in Taslima's talk - which was the only talk in the whole conference to get a full standing ovation.

Posted by: iamtheonlyjosie | March 15, 2010 5:47 PM

I'm going have to chime in, like many, to say how awesome this weekend was and how disappointing the mainstream media coverage was.

So much of what was "said" at the conference was contextual. "Pope Nazi" was, indeed, "Pope ... Nazi" (as was pointed out above). The derision handed out to the token Xian was not when she declared her beliefs and thanked god for the night, it was when she got halfway through her long-winded "what is DNA, where did it come from ..." question. And, following the twitter feed, it seemed that whilst everyone was happy to laugh at the odd comedian or throw away "ha ha religion" line, the speakers who had little to say but "religious people are backwards fools" were certainly not universally cheered.

And, having never been to a Hillsong or other pentacostal event, I'm going to guess here but I seriously doubt that atheists, muslims, jews, etc. are treated with utmost reverence and respect when they all get together and chat about how totally awesome jesus is. It was a meeting of atheists, for atheists. There was a lot of intellectual stuff going on but, for me at least, there was a lot of relief about being able to honestly, openly and crudely discuss religion without worrying who I was offending. So yes, I laughed at the comedians.

Posted by: spunmunkey | March 15, 2010 9:22 PM

This is soooo embarassing - more crap form The Australian in regards to the Conference - the BS that spills forth from this woman is breathtaking:

http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/opinion/dawkins-preaches-to-the-deluded-against-the-divine/story-e6frg6zo-1225841086925

Makes me cringe to be an Australian, when crap like this is published.

Posted by: WowbaggerOM | March 15, 2010 9:58 PM

spunmunkey wrote:

Makes me cringe to be an Australian, when crap like this is published.

Me too. The other media outlets have been reasonable about their coverage; this woo-soaked idiot obviously isn't too good a researcher, since she call Nazism 'a product of atheism' - Gott mit uns anyone?

I'm also unsurprised that there's no comment section. People like that don't appreciate having their stupidity pointed out to them. Closed-minded indeed. Still, I intend to flame the crap out of her on twitter later today.

Posted by: Rorschach | March 16, 2010 12:53 AM

Makes me cringe to be an Australian, when crap like this is published.

I read this earlier today and though to myself, someone must have been upset about the very reasonable opinion in the Australian yesterday, that PZ linked to in the title, that they felt it needed a reply from a so obviously deluded person.

Posted by: Ichthyic | March 16, 2010 1:19 AM

So its OK to call Ratzinger a Nazi, but unwise to insult Muslims because they might cut your head off.

ah, how times change eh?

I bet the Pope has some serious Fatwah envy about now, and longs for the days when he could have ordered someone burned at the stake for insult to his person.

Posted by: Ichthyic | March 16, 2010 1:32 AM

4) I'm nominating my liver for March's Molly for it's demonstrated fortitude over the last 4 days.

you, uh, don't happen to have a liver donor card?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gdXVQymTImo&feature;=response_watch

Posted by: Ichthyic | March 16, 2010 2:06 AM

You could have my liver but alas I believe it's got so scared of any further abuse it's shrunk as far back into my body as possible, shivering terrifiedly and will not come out no matter how I coax it.

well, did you show it the galaxy vid?