Pharyngula

Posted by: leepicton | April 3, 2010 9:42 PM

Live Journal is behaving again. Am I the only human on earth who does not like horror movies? Well, a couple were ok.

BTW, Friends of Pharyngula met in Catonsville today and had a great time. We were ten this time and hope we are growing.

Posted by: Stanton | April 3, 2010 9:53 PM

Does anyone have any advice for marinating a precooked ham?

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 3, 2010 10:01 PM

Evelle doesn't hold a candle to Vampira.

Posted by: sasqwatch | April 3, 2010 10:09 PM

Now THAT's cheepnis.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 3, 2010 10:17 PM

How about a song? Here's a Stan Rogers' ballad:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ei7MS3gdXk&playnext;_from=TL&videos;=MMQjM-SKIKU

Posted by: AJ Milne | April 3, 2010 10:20 PM

Am I the only human on earth who does not like horror movies? Well, a couple were ok.

They're generally not my thing either.

But then, they're good when they're not quite horror... Or not just horror. Horror mixed with somethin' else, that's often good.

So I guess I see horror as bein' kinda like vermouth.

As in: there's no one on the planet drinks that shit straight. But waved properly over a glass of gin, it does officially make it a martini.

Less obliquely: Alien was a good movie, and that was a SF/horror blend. I really rather liked Sleepy Hollow actually, and that was sorta a lightish, insanely pretty* horror homage. Hour of the Wolf is what you get when Bergman takes it into his head he wants to do horror, and that was really good, too... And... Umm... I'm pretty sure I can think of other examples. Right after this martini.

(*/Depp, Ricci, both very pretty. Crazy, artificial fog-cloaked English location and soundstage forest, criminally pretty.)

Posted by: AJ Milne | April 3, 2010 10:25 PM

Oh. Right. And Jodorowsky's Santa Sangre is actually pretty awesome. And that's sorta a horror mix thing, too.

Posted by: otrame | April 3, 2010 10:28 PM

Then, of course, there is my favorite.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 3, 2010 10:45 PM

Tomorrow is not only Easter, the secular celebration of the new life of Spring, but it is also my darling daughter's 14th birthday. Grandparents and the rich aunt chipped in to buy her a drum set. A nice one.

Oooooo I can't wait...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qF-k4wg70rg

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 3, 2010 10:50 PM

otrame,

Here's the only political song Stan ever recorded. It was also the last song he ever recorded.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pwld86XndSY&feature;=related

Posted by: otrame | April 3, 2010 10:58 PM

@22

Yeah. "causes are ashes where children lie slain".

at least we've gotten a little peace from

"and the damned UDL and the cruel IRA
will tomorrow go murdering again".

*sigh

I wish he was still with us. But at least we have what he left us.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 3, 2010 11:00 PM

AJ Milne,

"If thine enemy offend thee, buy each of his children a drum." -Attributed to Confucius

Posted by: leepicton | April 3, 2010 11:10 PM

When I am wishing to be particularly evil, I threaten the spawn with presenting my darling grandson with a drum (he is 10 months old right now and pounds on everything anyway - see facebook movie). Spawn threatens to take steps to make sure he can collect his inheritance in a more timely fashion that I would naturally have planned.

Posted by: tdanielmidgley | April 3, 2010 11:18 PM

EXTERIOR SHOT: Jesus, outside tomb.

Jesus: (looking toward sky, raspily) I told you to let me die!

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 3, 2010 11:20 PM

Found it! The video is a guy tying a dry fly with "Sailors' Rest" as accompaniment.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vzx1AtzFhkA

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 3, 2010 11:27 PM

said child has also always expressed a hankering for a saxaphone.

You're thinking too small. Bagpipes!

Posted by: AJ Milne | April 3, 2010 11:42 PM

You're thinking too small. Bagpipes!

For this, my understanding is, Miss Manners approves air strikes.

(/My father played--nay, plays--those. Ah, the memories. The squealing, droning, whining, oh fuck will you please make them go away memories...)

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 3, 2010 11:44 PM

Bagpipes!

bwahahaha

I am going out to New Mexico in a couple of weeks to play some accordion/banjo duets with a buddy of mine. Bagpipes would complete that trio for sure.

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 3, 2010 11:58 PM

Oh. Right. And Jodorowsky's Santa Sangre is actually pretty awesome.

I LOVE Jodorowsky but I don't think that's really horror. Is it? I dunno. My movie taste would probably disturb. I hate slashers though except maybe for some of the old gialo stuff. Some of the horror of Italy, like the house with laughing windows, also works as a metaphor for life in a small village under a fascist government. Spain has some films like this as well that are worth it I think.

I never know whether to say I like horror or not though because while I do like a deeply disturbing and provocative film (Visitor Q, Holy Mountain, The Reflecting Skin...) I also often like films because they are visually stunning and affecting (Russel's The Devils is one of my favorites)...

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 12:00 AM

Crap did I just trail off there? Yeah... I'm in make-mode right now.

Anyway, while I like those films the cheap gotcha tricks, or the omg boobs bouncing while some one is disemboweled, just don't reach me.

Posted by: AJ Milne | April 4, 2010 12:02 AM

#40:

Oh, hell, I dunno. That was kinda the point. It's kinda horor, uses some of the language, but does its own thing...

Come to think of it, see also The Devil's Backbone. It's got a ghost. But the ghost is so, so far from being the scariest thing in the film.

(/Seriously, it's like: I'll take the ghost over some of the actually living people in this thing. It can tuck me in at night, for all I care. I'd be pretty okay with that, relatively speaking.)

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 12:14 AM

Oh yeah, that's some great spelling up there man. I'm proud of myself.

I should make signs for the tea party.

Posted by: The Laughing Man | April 4, 2010 12:18 AM

Geoffrey #835 from ep. XLIV

What? That he posted about Texas recently as already mentioned earlier and you couldn't be fucked to go back and read the post and comment there?

Maybe you need to sit down when you pee instead of pissing all over the floor here. I do only have socks on.

My apologies, could was supposed to be italisized. I stated in #786 that he appropriates the actions as jokular, something which i find a serious slight to the ramifications of stupid people in high positions of influence--the publishing power held by texas, in addition to being the the capital of the Creotard rebel state.

I did read the post, but i was replying to Ol'Greg in regards to his proposed hypothetical retaliatory stance as the postmaster of a blog. I realise PZ's reaction differed from that, but apparently Josh had a similar reaction, though things are smoothing out i think.

Don't i feel special; two sequential responses to my comments :)

But there are better ways to persuade a blog author to pay more attention to your topic, that's all. But I'm not PZ, so it's just a random observation.

I'm not your enemy, really. :)

I know you aren't. No one here is, in any dramatic sense of the word (and if there were some who fit that description, i wouldn't go about needlessly pointing fingers becasue that would serve no purpose).

Josh, i understand. But then again, i cannot. As much as PZ loathes accomodationalism, you seem to be insisting that i accomodate his (i find) lackadaisical respose to what is ostensibly one of the biggest issues in our education system at this very moment. We need an immediate knee-jerk response calling for the impeachment of these offenders of intellect!

And another thing, i need to rouse at least a semblance of concern for the issue. I cannot understand how you, my fellow pharangulites, -oids, and OMs, can be burnt out about this discussion but are still roaring strong over the pope and his fucking problems (pun intended). That issue is being dealt with by the global population en masse, because it is a global issue that will destroy the church. Our input (while appropriate and natural) seems to be coming at the expense of more pressing domestic issues which PZ as a professor should take personal affront to.

Posted by: sasqwatch | April 4, 2010 12:20 AM

I once found Eraserhead in the horror section of a video rental store. And all this time I thought it was a comedy.

Since then, have gobbled up everything Jodorowsky ever directed, BTW. Lynch just wasn't weird enough.

Posted by: Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 4, 2010 12:24 AM

I once found Eraserhead in the horror section of a video rental store. And all this time I thought it was a comedy.

Posted by: WowbaggerOM | April 4, 2010 12:37 AM

Ol'Greg wrote:

Why are you an ex-drummer?

Once a drummer, always a drummer. It's in the blood. And whatever remains of the brain...

Yes, I'm a self-hating drummer.

Posted by: The Laughing Man | April 4, 2010 1:03 AM

Posted by: Sven DiMilo #287

37765

Posted by: The Laughing Man | April 4, 2010 1:19 AM

If only my comment had been 689, then i would be totally mindblown hahaha

Posted by: timrowledge | April 4, 2010 1:35 AM

You're thinking too small. Bagpipes! For this, my understanding is, Miss Manners approves air strikes.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 4, 2010 1:49 AM

Tommy Makem used to say: "The Irish gave the pipes to the Scots, who never have understood the joke."

A piper playing the archtypical pipes tune.

Posted by: zeuss | April 4, 2010 1:54 AM

A drumming teenager! I have the next worst thing at my house - a tap dancing teenager! The trouble is that he is built like a football lineman (yes, he does play football) It isn't easy to find double wide tap shoes. I just bought him a new $300 pair So imagine a football lineman with an expensive pair of percussion instruments on his feet, stomping around on my hardwood floors. Did I mention he is known to spontaniously break into song as well. And man-o-man, can he project!

You have a drumming teenager - I feel your pain.

Posted by: sacredchao2305 | April 4, 2010 2:13 AM

@Ol' Greg
Visitor Q (as well as Gozu and a couple other Miike films) caused me to literally slam my head against the couch and gouge at my eyes with my fingers. Not kidding at all.

Personally, I love horror films. Toby Hooper's The Texas Chainsaw Massacre, The Exorcist, and Let the Right One In are easy favorites. Dario Argento has made quite a few good ones as well. As for less-well-known Giallo flicks, everyone should see Torso some time. More gratuitous TNA than Caligula.

Posted by: cicely | April 4, 2010 2:30 AM

Ah. I see 'Tis got there ahead of me.

Posted by: cicely | April 4, 2010 2:40 AM

Annnd, blockquote fail.

Remember, Always Aim for the Head, least we make the same mistake a centurion did 2000 years ago with a botched zombie execution.

And always double tap.

Posted by: Owlmirror | April 4, 2010 4:19 AM

JohnHamilton makes me think of Charlie Wagner.

There's that same insistence that oh, no, he's no creationist. How dare we call him that?!

There's that same insistence that sure, there's the fact of evolution (observation), but the theory (explanation) of evolution is completely inadequate or invalid or whatever.

But otherwise the style is very different. Actually referring explicitly to a "higher intelligence" or discussing souls is not something CW usually does, as I recall, and JH hasn't suggested panspermia, or even talked much about abiogenesis.

Meh. The feel of similarity is probably apophenia on my part.

Still, I wonder if JH has a Hawaiian IP address?

Posted by: Bride of Shrek OM | April 4, 2010 5:00 AM

'Tis

You're thinking too small. Bagpipes!

...naaahh, YOU'RE thinking too small - TUBA!!!! Then you've got the additional excuse as to why it should really, really stay at the ex's house.

..As a corollary, my dear old departed atheist Scot grandad used to play the bagpipes when he'd had a few whiskeys. This of course was every afternoon at about 4 pm (he was surgeon so we'll just have to presume anything after about 12 was a "suspect" diagnosis) My gran soon worked out this fit nicely with school ending time so she'd banish him to the local school (which was mercifully staggering distance) to play on their oval to his heart's content.

..My gran's coming to stay tomorrow for a few days so I'll no doubt get a bit more of the juicy goss from her. She turned 94 last week and still walks her dog 4 klms a day and was one of the first radical feminists in the 30's in Aust. I love her gorgeous atheist heart to death!!!

Posted by: Matt Penfold | April 4, 2010 5:11 AM

This talk of bagpipes reminds me of an old joke.

What is the definition of a Scottish Gentleman ?

A man who knows how to play the bagpipes, but refrains from doing so.

Posted by: conelrad | April 4, 2010 6:32 AM

In his recent book The New Atheism, Victor Stenger has Xtians #1 @ 2.1 B, Muslims #2 @ 1.5 B, & 'Secular/non-religious/agnostic/atheist' in 3rd place @ 1.1 Billion. I dunno, maybe it's all true.

Posted by: Alan B | April 4, 2010 6:56 AM

Did somebody say "bagpipes"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3n9hbYwZZqk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XETk-zYa11U&feature;=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ADuCbafqBDQ&feature;=related
(not to my taste but someone might like it ...)

specially for Australian bagpipe lovers (1) - a busker from Freemantle WA:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=nNBwwXbKquw&feature;=related

specially for Australian bagpipe lovers (2) - Melbourne (??)
www.youtube.com/watch?v=_UaJ9UKM7kk&feature;=related
(turn up the volume and let it rip!!)

Posted by: Kel, OM | April 4, 2010 7:13 AM

I've spent today watching an interview between Richard Dawkins and Alister McGrath. Infuriating at times, though quite insightful.

Posted by: Aquaria | April 4, 2010 7:28 AM

Once a drummer, always a drummer. It's in the blood. And whatever remains of the brain...
Yes, I'm a self-hating drummer.

That sounds a lot like something my husband would say.

Honey, is that you? Warm up some coffee cake, would you?

:P

Posted by: Hypatia's Daughter | April 4, 2010 7:41 AM

Men who dress in scratchy wool skirts, throw trees for sport and play a musical instrument inspired by tortured cats.....how can you not like such iconoclastic independence in a people???

Posted by: iambilly | April 4, 2010 8:25 AM

Some years ago, my brother-in-law and his wife gave my son a drum. Not nice.

We retaliated, though.

Since they don't like to fly, they, and their six-year-old daughter, took Amtrak to Florida to visit (((Wife)))'s parents for Christmas break (we drove (20 hours)). We gave her a couple of presents to open on the train.

One of those presents was, in honour of the trip, a train whistle. Not the nice four-chime wooden whistle with the mellow and soothing chord. Oh, no. This was a three-chime whistle (in a minor 7th) which emits piercing and thoroughly annoying screech.

When, upon arriving in Florida, they objected to the present, we reminded them of the drum.

Turnabout is fairplay.

(Though Fairplay is a town just South of Hagerstown, MD on the road to Sharpsburg. Not sure where Turnabout is.)

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 4, 2010 8:44 AM

The Gurkhas have taken to the pipes:

http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/75950/ghurka_with_bagpipes.jpg

http://www.richard-seaman.com/Travel/Brunei/GurkhaBand.jpg

Posted by: soliussymbiosus | April 4, 2010 8:48 AM

@ someone wrote:

Does anyone have any advice for marinating a precooked ham?

I would suggest bourbon... burp!

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 4, 2010 8:54 AM

Not sure where Turnabout is.

Turnabout Ranch in Utah

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 4, 2010 9:00 AM

I nearly had to strangle an Easter sunrise asshole this morning. I got up, admittedly forgotting what day it was, and headed out to the beach to catch a sunrise and maybe get some photos.

Well torture celebrator fuckhead and his little shit kids and annoying wife decided that despite the fact that I had been there on a virtually empty stretch of beach for 30 mins with my tripod set up framing the pier for the sunrise shot, that his need to stand directly in front of me and read from his bible was more important.

I proceeded to give him and his wife a little lesson on common courtesy.

The nerve of some assholes.

And he was a local too, not even a tourist.

Motherfucker.

Happy fucking Easter everyone.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | April 4, 2010 9:17 AM

He is Risen!

And He Made Coffee!

I'm only an ex-drummer because I no longer have a drum-set. I bought my daughter one, though. The noise doesn't bother me as much as the quiet, as they say.

Sven: tell me that you aren't the banjo half of the accordion-banjo duo. My brother is a pretty accomplished accordion player, and I have just started playing banjo. We spent hours around the holidays arranging Irish tunes for that pair of instruments. I think the two instruments are really pretty complementary...except that an accordion can be played much louder than a banjo.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 4, 2010 9:30 AM

"He is risen, he is not here; see the place where they laid him. I do, however, have this delicious ham..."

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 4, 2010 9:36 AM

I (mostly) just dropped in to see if what, in the light of his previous comments about the limits of his support for the (UK) Conservative Party, ,b>Walton has to say about the comments by their Shadow Home Minister.

Walton, time to quit the Tories, no?

PS ~ any pictures of 'Tis's boat? Sorry if you posted anything that I've missed.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | April 4, 2010 9:46 AM

I love horror movies...the more slasherific the better. This is weird because real-life violence nauseates me. In the same way, I'm crazy about Kung-Fu movies, but can't stand that ultimate-fighter cage-match bullshit. It creeps me out.

Posted by: scooterKPFT | April 4, 2010 9:55 AM

I'd suggest Happy Bunny Passover Eastern Mary-nade

1: Mogan David Concord Grape Wine: a bottle worth poured generously over...

2. Cold smoked lamb's blood. : 10 oz

3. clam stock : disclaimer: this verbage is not a veiled reference to Scientology.: a whole can

4.Philadephia Cream Cheese. 3 wobblespoons.

5.Stone ground Vatican aged cracker flour and whole wheat bagels with extra Palestinian blood olives. to taste

Blend vigorously in koscher lard and vegan Kobi Beef hooves.

Serve on leavened un-stupid.

An excellent compliment to graised Rabbit in mint sauce.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | April 4, 2010 10:01 AM

Thanks scooterKPFT: I will be using that Mary-Nade on tonight's sacrificial leg of lamb.

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 4, 2010 10:03 AM

any pictures of 'Tis's boat?

I don't own a boat. I sail with a friend who owns one. I don't know if there's a picture of his boat on the intertubes, but here's a couple of boats of the same class, Erickson 39s:

http://charthorizon.com/races/2008_chicago_mackinac/htdocs/images/boats/Nana_full.jpg

http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/picericson39100a.jpg

http://www.sailingtexas.com/Pics/picericson39100b.jpg

Posted by: co | April 4, 2010 10:16 AM

It struck me just now, upon reading of various Easter-themed happenings, that my friends and I have arranged to have some good breakfast vittles, then go hiking today, and no one has mentioned Easter or church or any of that happy horseshit. If anyone mentions it to me, I'll say "Happy Zombie Jesus Day" back, but it's quite possible that no one even feels the need to say anything, or think about it.

How freakin' awesome is that?

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 10:24 AM

I can't get over this video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Puph1hejMQE

I saw this band live here in Dallas. The last time they had played they were at club Dada and no one knew who they were. They were great though, that was Yellow House I think. But I figured they'd just be another post rock indie sort-of-cool band like Acron Family. I saw they were coming to the Granada though on the Vackatimest tour and picked up some tickets because I had gotten hold of that album and thought... dang these guys get better each album.

I was lucky. Apparently that album hit rolling stone and by the afternoon the show was sold out.

Totally worth it. They put on a really amazing show! One of the best live performances I've seen at that venue.

That was a long aside, but the video is cool. Awesome stop motion stuff.

Posted by: Walton | April 4, 2010 10:41 AM

RTL @#102:

I don't think Grayling's comments were homophobic. Rather, I think it was a reasonable answer to one of the most difficult questions in a free society: how do we draw a balance between protecting oppressed groups from discrimination, and guaranteeing to private individuals the right to act according to their conscience within their private lives?

On the one hand, we, quite rightly, have anti-discrimination laws in employment, housing, and other areas that apply both to the public and private sectors. In obtaining the necessities of life - food, housing, a job, and so on - someone should not be discriminated against on the grounds of race, gender or sexual orientation, and it is absolutely right that the state should take action to protect them from discrimination. Similarly, religious groups performing public functions - like Catholic adoption agencies - should be compelled either to follow anti-discrimination laws, or shut down and be replaced with secular alternatives.

On the other hand, there are limits. I hope we would all agree here that the state should not, for instance, enact anti-discrimination laws forcing the Catholic Church to ordain women to the priesthood or conduct weddings for same-sex couples. Freedom of religion and freedom of association are fundamental rights; while the Catholic stance on several issues is bigoted and irrational, they have a right to apply their beliefs within their own church, without interference by the state. So there is a point at which the right to non-discrimination gives way to the right to freedom of religion and freedom of association.

But a B&B; run in someone's home seems to me to fall somewhere in between these two extremes. There is certainly a strong argument for saying that they should not be covered by anti-discrimination laws. Is it the legitimate role of the state to dictate to people who they may or may not invite into their home? Certainly, I would personally condemn any bed-and-breakfast that adopted a homophobic policy - as, I'm sure, would Chris Grayling. But there is an argument that just as we give people the freedom to make decisions for their own church, we should give them the same freedom as regards their own home. This is not a homophobic argument, and I don't think it's fair to suggest that it is. As you know, I speak out against homophobia regularly both here and IRL, and am fully in support of same-sex marriage and adoption rights.

There are some homophobes left in the Tory Party - and in the Labour Party - but Chris Grayling has said nothing to suggest that he is one of them.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 4, 2010 10:57 AM

Vert disappointed.

Posted by: Walton | April 4, 2010 11:02 AM

B&B; owners run a public business. They can't then decide who can or can't stay in the rooms in their houses that they have designated for public use.

So how do you distinguish between a B&B; discriminating against gay people, and a church - which is also open to the public - discriminating against gay people? Why is the latter OK and the former not?

I'm not saying Grayling was necessarily right. I think it's an arguable, and very difficult, issue where multiple people's legitimate rights and liberties conflict. But Grayling was not expressing homophobic ideas, and I think it's absurd to suggest that he was.

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | April 4, 2010 11:10 AM

One of these labels is slightly exaggerated, according to the linked report: in the US, atheist males are more liberal, smarter, and better sex partners than their believer brothers.

Guess which before you click!

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 11:35 AM

The reasoning is that sexual exclusivity in men, liberalism and atheism all go against what would be expected given humans' evolutionary past. In other words, none of these traits would have benefited our early human ancestors, but higher intelligence may be associated with them.

From the article linked in 121.

I mean I get the point of the article and I think that's great, but statements like this kind of irritate me. I mean these traits are assumed to have no benefit to our early ancestors but that's a helluva assumption.

Higher reasoning, analytical thought, empathy for society members, concentrating resources on one or two healthy batches of children instead of lots of less-likely-to-survive children you don't know about. That sounds like a big advantage, almost like a moving towards a stable society, the likes of which have made humans one of the most competitive species on the planet.

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | April 4, 2010 11:42 AM

Owlmirror @ # 72: ... probably apophenia on my part.

So far I've checked in four dictionaries, and none has that word (though all have interesting alphabetical neighbors for it). Please support your usage, or forfeit Scrabble points.

Posted by: Paul W., OM | April 4, 2010 11:57 AM

Pierce,

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apophenia

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 4, 2010 12:04 PM

Speaking of Easter traditions

does anyone else eat an apple on a fasting heart Easter morning

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 4, 2010 12:14 PM

Still dangerous, after all these years.
China blocks Bob Dylan gigs

Posted by: JeffreyD | April 4, 2010 12:27 PM

Been following the homophobic B&B; owners story on the local news and am appalled. I am with RTL on this one, the Conservatives do not have it right. A B&B; is a public business which follows a whole slew of rules to exist. Sexual preference should be no more subject to discrimination than gender or race (whatever that word means).

Walton, it is different from a church. A church does not appear to be subject to a law that says you cannot discriminate, kind of like a private club. If the church is state supported then it should follow state rules. Then again, no church should ever be state supported. A B&B; is a business that is open to the public. Would you defend the owners if they said no people of colour? No jews? No ugly people? No toffee nosed Oxford students? (Tongue in cheek on the last one.) I do not see how you can come up with a defense on this one, but willing to read your effort if you wish to make one.

Posted by: Pierce R. Butler | April 4, 2010 12:39 PM

One of the things I found most intriguing about the atheists/IQ/liberalism/monogamy story is the implicit assumption - apparently by reporter and researchers alike - that "a desire to show superiority or elitism" just comes out naturally as an expression of liberalism.

I mean, like, duh, what else?

(Imagine the types of women one might attract by vocal professions of Tea-libanism...)

BTW, Paul W. @ # 130 - thanks for a neat tip!

Posted by: Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 4, 2010 12:43 PM

liberalism is unconventional? :-/

anyway

the good: I was woken up by having bacon, eggs, and hashbrowns and a cup of freshly french-pressed coffee delivered to my bedside.

the bad: stoopid christian designers are celebrating their stoopid holiday instead of working; I haven't sold a single picture today

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 1:01 PM

So if you have apples around to eat Easter morning, you most likely have had fruit and veg to eat all through Winter, which obviously is good for your health.

I dunno. There are a lot of interesting (to me) little superstitions like that and for some reason I enjoy collecting them and seeing how they modify over time and in different areas.

My grandfather used to put a piece of silver in the bowl to wash his face after the new year.

Posted by: David Marjanović | April 4, 2010 1:58 PM

2 weeks without warm water would absolutely mean I wouldn't shower for 2 weeks. I will not suffer.

beef stir-fry is tasty though...

Oh, that could be.

The trick with boiled beef is to eat the liquid, as soup. The best beef I know of is Tafelspitz, which I've only had once... all other boiled beef is very tough and needs chewing forever...

Am I the only human on earth who does not like horror movies?

No :-)

It's simple: I don't like being scared. Just like how I don't like being melancholic. And that even though I haven't experienced anything similar in meatspace (see comment 101).

Some parts of the Scary Movie series were watchable, but that sort of defeats the point, doesn't it. :-)

I was able to stand Nosferatu (yes, the old one) and Carrie (the TV was on, my dad was watching them), but I didn't like them. Haven't seen any other horror movies.

Unless the Rocky Horror Picture Show counts, which we watched at school. <barf>

Jesus: (looking toward sky, raspily) I told you to let me die!

:-D

For this, my understanding is, Miss Manners approves air strikes.

"The big battles you can only win by air strikes! Old rule of the bush!"
– Mortadelo y Filemón. Pun fully intended, at least in the German translation.

A piper playing the archtypical pipes tune.

WTF. What is that guy doing with his neck!?! JohnHamilton will be delighted to learn of this human-frog chimera.

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1175491/

Now there's a horror movie ?

No. It's exceedingly funny :-)

I love the classic horror films...Creature from the Black Lagoon, Wolfman, Dracula. Never got into a lot of the modern day ones.

The True Creature from the Black Lagoon is a lot more classic than you think.

I like horror films with daft monsters, and zombies, aliens etc (but not vampires, yawn)

It's very easy to make funny movies with vampires, though; this includes not only Mel Brooks' Dracula – Dead And Loving It, but also Blade: Trinity which was shown at the dig last year (almost everyone brings their laptops, you see).

I'd suggest Happy Bunny Passover Eastern Mary-nade

Ew, Philadelphia Cream Cheese.

in the US, atheist males are more liberal, smarter, and better sex partners than their believer brothers

Hm. While – if we kindly ignore the "they want to show off" angle! – that article flatters me, and, funnily, flatters Jadehawk at the same time, I wonder if those IQ differences are statistically significant... and what they actually measure. And the "moving the species forward" part is just stupid. And then there are comments 123 and 124.

What do you all think of the related article on dog people and cat people? It predicts me to be a cat person, as indeed I am...

"Fear not. My name is Peter."

X-D

does anyone else eat an apple on a fasting heart Easter morning [...] to ensure good health?

~:-| No. Your explanation makes sense, though.

(Imagine the types of women one might attract by vocal professions of Tea-libanism...)

Especially the one at the bottom right corner! Ugh! :-)

Scratch that. I found a horror flick I like.

ROTFLMAO!!!

liberalism is unconventional? :-/

In the US... hey! You're the one living in ND! :-)

the good: I was woken up by having bacon, eggs, and hashbrowns and a cup of freshly french-pressed coffee delivered to my bedside.

Congratulations!

Posted by: Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 4, 2010 2:32 PM

oh and btw guys, PZ had a whole thread on this "atheists are smarter" article a while back (which devolved into an argument whether the IQ test measures anything other than being good at taking the IQ test)

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal | April 4, 2010 3:12 PM

iambilly (@81), yep, that's a summer hailstorm. Did that happen in 2001? That was a record breaking hailstorm. Took four months to get our El Camino seen too, 6 months for the van. Roofers were booked solid for over a year. As for Taco John's, I don't know. I've never eaten at one.

Posted by: blf | April 4, 2010 3:26 PM

The Rat is hiding in its nest, Pope defiant over child sex abuse:

Senior Catholics across Europe use Easter addresses to apologise and acknowledge the damage caused by the scandal, while pontiff remains unrepentant

Senior Catholics across Europe today apologised for the way the church had dealt with paedophile priests and acknowledged the damage the scandal had caused to its moral authority.

…

But there was no apology from Rome, as Benedict XVI maintained a steadfast silence about the crisis in his annual Urbi et Orbi – To the City and the World – address.

The only mention of the turmoil came from Cardinal Angelo Sodano, the dean of the College of Cardinals, who stood before the pope in a packed St Peter's Square and lauded him as the "unfailing rock" of the Catholic church.

In a departure from protocol, he told the pontiff in a special tribute: "We are deeply grateful for your strength of spirit and the apostolic courage with which you proclaim Christ's gospel."

In an apparent reference to the crisis, and employing a term already used by the pope, Sodano said the church would not be intimidated by "idle chatter".

…

[A] contrite archbishop of Canterbury [Rowan Williams] rang the archbishop of Dublin, Diarmuid Martin, to try to defuse widespread anger and disbelief after he said the church in Ireland had lost "all credibility".

…

The backlash was almost immediate, with churchmen from Catholic and Protestant traditions condemning Williams as being thoughtless and unhelpful during one of the darkest periods for Irish Catholicism. Caught aback by the level of outrage, Williams rang Martin, who later told churchgoers he appreciated the archbishop's "sadness" regarding "some unfortunate words".

…

The latest [incident] is Malta, which the pope is to visit this month. It was reported last week that 45 priests stood accused of sexual offences since the creation of a church response team in 1999.

None of the cases has been referred to the police and the retired judge who heads the project said that was the responsibility of victims and parents.

Posted by: iambilly | April 4, 2010 3:39 PM

Caine @ 145:

Yup, 2001. It was a most impressive storm.

We then hit 110 degree temperatures at Roosevelt National Park, a heavy snow storm at Yellowstone, and then tornadoes in Gillette.

Posted by: iambilly | April 4, 2010 3:55 PM

Okay, I have no where else to turn. I do know, however, that the other inhabitants (not me, of course) of this thread are brilliant, well-educated, well-read, well-rounded, and, well, fandamntastic people.

So here's the problem: I'm trying to locate the chords for a specific (and weird) piece of music. I found the lyrics to it:

They're moving father's grave to build a sewer They're moving it regardless of expense. They're moving his remains to lay down nine-inch drains To irrigate some rich bloke's residence. Now what's the use of having a religion? If when you're dead you cannot get some peace 'Cause some society chap wants a pipeline to his tank And moves you from your place of rest and peace... Now father in his life was not a quitter And I'm sure that he'll not be a quitter now. And in his winding sheet, he will haunt that privy seat And only let them go when he'll allow.

Now won't there be some bleedin' consternation,
And won't those city toffs begin to rave!
But it's no more than they deserve,
'cause they had the bleedin' nerve
To muck about a British workman's grave.

Which, however, does me no good at all as I have a wooden ear (to go with my wooden guitar (a '64 Martin Dreadnought)) and, though I have heard the Clancy Brothers and Tommy Makem sing the damn thing enough, I NEED THE CHORDS!

If anyone happens to have the chords for this delightful bit of labour history, or you know where they are, could you email me at bill_clark (at) nps.gov or my home address, which is billytheatheist (at) gmail.com ?

Thank you in advance you wonderful, brilliant and well-fed people.

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 4, 2010 4:04 PM

Sorry to hear about the jerk, Rev. Did you get the shot, or did he take up too much time and you had to miss it? The guy actually got right in front of you? It's amazing how piously uncivil some people can be.

Well I got the shot, and he got an earful after I gave him about 4-5 mins to see if he's recognize what he had done.

And yes he was directly in front of my lens by about 6-10 feet. I could have spit on him.

I didn't, but I could have.

Posted by: blf | April 4, 2010 4:08 PM

I'm trying to locate the chords for a specific (and weird) piece of music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lI94HbLEzh0

The origins of this song have been debated, but so far appear to be inconclusive. It is generally thought to have come from the British music hall tradition, though there is a reference in "The Journal of the International Brotherhood of Boiler Makers and Iron Ship Builders of America, (Aug. 1, 1903)", to "Bro. Tommy Ward" singing a song called "We had to move Paddy's grave to dig a sewer." The song was apparently sung by British soldiers in WW2.

Tom Paley sang it in 1955 and Peter Sellers recorded a version in about 1959 called "They're removing Grandpa's grave to build a sewer". Oscar Brand recorded a rather longer version of the song, and it has also been sung by The Clancy Brothers, in a Maine PBS special in 1988, the only recording I have been able to find on YouTube.

I first discovered this song in my copy of Frank Lynn's 1961 songbook with the rather redundant title, "Songs For Singing".

For lyrics and chords of my songs, see my website: http://www.raymondcrooke.com

I have not checked Mr Crooke's site to see if he has the cords et al. to this song there or not.

Posted by: iambilly | April 4, 2010 4:11 PM

blf: The Clancy Bros. also did it in a live recording at Carnegie Hall.

Nice bit of irony, there. A song lamenting the abuse of labourers sung in Carnegie Hall.

Posted by: blf | April 4, 2010 4:16 PM

Thor. Again. I'm beginning to think that's one god with an attention span problem.

Actually, Thor's short-term attention span is quite good. You try flinging great big hammers around without concentrating! The problem is, after the hammer hits, there's not point in paying any further attention to whatever it was that went SPLAT! So Thor's never needed to learn to stay focused for very long.

Posted by: Walton | April 4, 2010 4:21 PM

Arghh. I shouldn't have made the mistake of getting involved in a mental-energy-consuming discussion on this thread. I'm exhausted and yet have to keep working, as I'm falling far behind with my exam preparation and have done much too little today. :-(

Please don't ask me any more questions that require an intelligent response.

Posted by: Walton | April 4, 2010 4:26 PM

have done much too little today. :-(

This should read "far too little", of course. See how law is destroying my brain. :-(

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 4:29 PM

Walton go away and do your work. I know it's hard. I get distracted too. I tell you what. You go study and I'll go work on the piece I said I'd donate that's due by May 3 (but I'll be in Paris then so I better hurry)......

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 4:39 PM

(E)moving his remains to (A) lay down nine-inch drains...

I screwed that up.

It's

They're (A) moving his remains to (E) lay down nine inch drains to (B) To irrigate some rich bloke's resid(E)dence.

Dunno why I wrote it that way. Sorry.

Posted by: Feynmaniac | April 4, 2010 5:02 PM

All I can say is Holy Duck.(not a typo).http://tpmmuckraker.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/04/scar_my_tattered_body_no_more_with_your_punishing.php?ref=mp

WTF?!?!?!1!!111

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 4, 2010 5:16 PM

It's a shame you can not unsee something.

Now time to go bleach my brain.

Posted by: David Marjanović | April 4, 2010 6:07 PM

<sigh>

I just caught up with the design flaws thread, filling 10 1/2 laptop screens in the process. There were several important things (like the fact that the definition of evolution isn't "change", but "change with heritable modification") which nobody had brought up, and several that indicate that JohnHamilton doesn't read comments by certain people (like me) at all...

There I go, trying to gently talk Jadehawk out of trying to fix all of meatspace at once (in a cryptic one-liner) because I fear she's getting depressed again, and what do I do next? I spend an entire evening acting as if I could fix all of teh intarwebz at once. To finally turn the tragedy into a farce, it's just one single creationist.

Interestingly, he's not a Christian creationist. He is the Gaia-worshipping creationist the Christian creationists so often warn us about. :-D

In a departure from protocol, he told the pontiff in a special tribute: "We are deeply grateful for your strength of spirit and the apostolic courage with which you proclaim Christ's gospel."

Urgh. "Courage"? WTF! Not even enough courage to admit his own mistakes!!!

Ewww. While I'm a great believer in candour, there is such a thing as too much information.

Come on. The mere mention of the mere existence of burping and farting makes you turn away in disgust? I mean, during my first circumcision thread I had to lie down (and actually did so), but... that's not on the same level. o_O

This should read "far too little", of course. See how law is destroying my brain. :-(

I don't seem to have consciously noticed so far, but it's interesting that, while "much too little" is indeed unusual English at best, it's fine German, even preferred over the alternative which literally translates as "by far too little" and sounds stronger.

Posted by: iambilly | April 4, 2010 6:45 PM

Ol'Greg: Thanks. Now I just need to put it into a key I can play. I knew ya'll could help.

Posted by: https://me.yahoo.com/a/SaqGVG0xvJEQVwURVamS3DTCdvov0BLhXK1jOsYPPJQ-#b4893 | April 4, 2010 7:02 PM

I hope all of you are aware of the terrible decision of the appelate court regarding the Snyder family, where the Snyders are required to pay the court costs of the Westboro Baptist Church. If not, read more here:

http://www.eacourier.com/articles/2010/04/04/opinion/editorials/doc4bb53f3100661315041965.txt

You can donate to the legal fund of the Snyder family here:

http://www.matthewsnyder.org/

Please, everyone, donate early and donate often. Excess funds are going to a good cause, and I'd guess they'll have a lot of excess funds. Just a hunch here.

MikeM

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 4, 2010 7:45 PM

Thanks MikeM. I've been bothered by that story. I tossed in a little donation. I encourage others to. I don't understand how that is protected when the audience is captive (private funeral) and especially when it is hate speech, an attack on a captive audience to keep them from doing what they are there to do.

Posted by: Rorschach | April 4, 2010 7:51 PM

No minor chords, no sixths, no funny stuff

Yes, damn the Beatles !!

Of course, one can always transpose the chords to something more finger-palatable !

Take for example "Octopus's garden" :

Here's the Original , I can't play that shit, but transposed up 3 half steps it becomes childsplay !!

What I learned on the radio(the BBC no less) driving to work yesterday : There is a PeeOutside-Day on April 19th , and an organised Pee Outside movement with a FB page and a website !(sort of SFW, but there is a "photos" page that I didnt look at, so dont blame me LOL)

:D

Posted by: Alan B | April 4, 2010 7:56 PM

#178 Re new Dr Who

My grandson watched it. I will get a review. (Tomorrow)

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 4, 2010 8:13 PM

More earthquakes. 7.1 in Baja California, tiddler in Santa Rosa.

Posted by: ambulocetacean | April 4, 2010 8:19 PM

What's the difference between a drummer and a drum machine? You only have to punch things into a drum machine once.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 4, 2010 8:30 PM

iambilly

What's the difference between a banjo and a VW?
You can tune a VW.

Ever heard Bela Fleck? I never dreamed I would have possesed an album of banjo music, until I heard "Throw Down Your Heart". Now I slowly getting his back catalogue too.

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | April 4, 2010 8:42 PM

What's the difference between a bassist and a pizza?
A pizza can feed a family of five.

How many members of a ska band does it take to screw in a lightbulb?
Nobody listens to ska anymore.

What's the difference between a banjo and an onion?
Nobody cries when you chop up a banjo.

Posted by: iambilly | April 4, 2010 8:48 PM

An accordian player actually got a gig. Of course, it was about 300 miles away, but, if you're an accordian player, you can't be picky.

On the way, he stopped to use the latrine. As he finished his business, he realized he had left his accordian in the back seat. In plain site.

He ran outside, but he was too late. Someone had broken out the back window.

And left a second accordian.

Posted by: iambilly | April 4, 2010 8:51 PM

How does a first chair violinist change a light bulb?

She holds it up and the world revolves around her.

Posted by: a_ray_in_dilbert_space | April 4, 2010 8:55 PM

What do you call a musician without a girlfriend?

Homeless.

Posted by: Epikt | April 4, 2010 9:03 PM

Sven DiMilo:

I was the goddamn trumpet player, but I also had a van (hey baby, care to see thw waterbed?)(naw not that kind)(this kind). Permanent fucking roadie. And I'll tell you--a drumset is nothing compared to that fucking Rhodes.

You can't imagine the horror of discovering that your brand new wife comes equipped with her own Hammond B3. Which she now expects you to move.

Posted by: Epikt | April 4, 2010 9:08 PM

What's the difference between a soprano and a seamstress?

The seamstress tucks up the frills.

How many banjo players does it take to change a light bulb?

Five--one to change the bulb and four to complain because it's electric.

What's the difference between a cello and a coffin?

The coffin has the dead guy on the inside.

Posted by: Epikt | April 4, 2010 9:13 PM

How many jazz musicians does it take to change a light bulb?

"Screw the changes, man, I play what I feel."

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | April 4, 2010 9:27 PM

"Mom, when I grow up, I want to be a drummer." His mother scoffs and replies,"Well, you can't do both."

Posted by: AJ Milne | April 4, 2010 9:29 PM

(Laughs hard at the music gags... Looks mildly hostile at the cello thing...)

My grandfather, a (now dead) dixieland and big band sax and clarinet guy, used to tell this incredibly awful, long thing about these two bassists, who, sick of having just this stupid little bit to play at the very, very end of some ninth symphony or other (I'm not sure it's in any way accurate that there even is such a piece--feel free to fill in, anyone who happens to know this one) decided to fuck off for the rest of the piece, go out, get drunk, planning to be back just in time for their four bars of glory at the end...

... but before they go, they're arguing. One's a smidge more conscientious, isn't totally sold on this idea. He's worried: what if they're late getting back, miss their cue?

His buddy talks him into it. Sez: 'Look, man, we'll just take a piece of string, tie it around the last page of the score so the conductor can't turn to that bit until we get back... If we're late, they're just gonna have to repeat for a bit... Seriously, guy, this can work...'

His buddy buys into this, and they do so, go out, get completely blasted...

So just imagine how the conductor felt when he discovered there were two out, the basses were loaded, the score was tied and it was the bottom of the ninth.

(/Runs from room.)

Posted by: Epikt | April 4, 2010 9:48 PM

How many bass players does it take to change a light bulb?

None. The keyboard player can do it with his left hand.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 4, 2010 10:11 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6LMTtsM95XE

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 4, 2010 10:15 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iB2Z2DY17yQ

Posted by: cicely | April 4, 2010 10:35 PM

How many oboe players does it take to change a lightbulb?

Only one but he'll go through 30 to 40 bulbs to find the best one.

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 4, 2010 10:41 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quZuGOcmVQ0

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 4, 2010 10:46 PM

i was thinking about this recently--here on teh Thread?--and it occured to me that of all musical instruments, only the brass family involves vibrating part of the body. Reeds, strings, metal or wood bars or skin or synthetic drumheads, electronics...all vibrating Other. Singing and playing a brass instrument: Self.

Posted by: Owlmirror | April 4, 2010 11:22 PM

Animal Crackers:
=================

Mrs. Rittenhouse: You are one of the musicians? But you were not due until tomorrow.

Ravelli: Couldn't come tomorrow, that's too quick.

Spaulding: Say, you're lucky they didn't come yesterday!

Ravelli: We were busy yesterday, but we charge just the same.

Spaulding: This is better than exploring! What do you fellows get an hour?

Ravelli: Oh, for playing we getta ten dollars an hour.

Spaulding: I see...What do you get for not playing?

Ravelli: Twelve dollars an hour.

Spaulding: Well, clip me off a piece of that.

Ravelli: Now, for rehearsing we make special rate. Thatsa fifteen dollars an hour.

Spaulding: That's for rehearsing?

Ravelli: Thatsa for rehearsing.

Spaulding: And what do you get for not rehearsing?

Ravelli: You couldn't afford it...

Posted by: Sven DiMilo | April 4, 2010 11:42 PM

re #223, I reiterate my lifelong commitment to Marxism.

Posted by: llewelly | April 4, 2010 11:50 PM

Flutes: weird. Only air vibrates, nothing else.

Posted by: Mr T | April 5, 2010 12:00 AM

music: n. a complex organization of sounds that is set down by the composer, incorrectly interpreted by the conductor, who is ignored by the musicians, the result of which is ignored by the audience.

=====

What do you get when you play New Age music backward?

New Age music.

=====

Sven:

Flutes: weird. Only air vibrates, nothing else.

Nor is there ever perfect breath support -- in some sense (with wind instruments) your lungs act as another pair of oscillators, disturbing the motion of the air/lips/reed as you as you start it vibrating.

Posted by: Love F | April 5, 2010 1:04 AM

After all these posts with people celebrating Easter with various alcoholic beverages it suddenly struck me why it took Jebus so long to get up from the cave grave. Having mostly second hand experience from hangovers it's still pretty obvious the things you want to do after a good party are:

-staying in bed
-avoiding bright light and (basically all) sounds

and after a REAL party
-staying away from the friends you partied with

So, in the lights that Jebus and his friends threw a party known as "The Last Supper*" in which alcohol was a central part, after which he gets nailed up to a cross (disturbance calls were taken seriously those days) we can safely conclude the party was epic and Jebus had a good hangover for a couple of days.

* how do I do a trademark symbol?

PS: Apparently Judas did something not-kosher enough at the party to not want to see his friends again. Bromance? Oh, and I have worked night four nights in a row, currently taking the train home, so blame exhaustion for bad humor. This adresses you too, god.

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal | April 5, 2010 1:20 AM

* how do I do a trademark symbol?

Type ™ directly after the word you want the symbol attached to, like 'hangover ™', except with no space.

Posted by: Owlmirror | April 5, 2010 1:41 AM

Don't forget the semicolon at the end: ™

Caine, to make an & sign, type &

Posted by: Epikt | April 5, 2010 4:38 AM

AJ Milne:

(Laughs hard at the music gags... Looks mildly hostile at the cello thing…)

Peace offering--Amy X. Neuburg with the Cello Chixtet:

http://www.youtube.com/user/amyxneuburg#p/a/u/0/n6Bl7eXUXVg

Apparently suggested names for the the all-cello all-female trio included "Hos with Bows" and "K-Y Celli."

Posted by: Rorschach | April 5, 2010 4:53 AM

This just in....

Police shut down crucifixion reenactment

Posted by: Rorschach | April 5, 2010 5:05 AM

Ah Kel, did you have to do that? I read that days ago, and was the same, so much stupidity, so little time....Now I might just go back and have another read through the comments LOL

Posted by: Rorschach | April 5, 2010 6:14 AM

I wonder if my comment I made has been posted...

Yours was, mine havent been yet.

Posted by: Kel, OM | April 5, 2010 6:32 AM

What moniker did you post under Rorschach?

Posted by: Kel, OM | April 5, 2010 6:41 AM

So I should look for a comment by "Rorschach" then?

Posted by: Alan B | April 5, 2010 6:47 AM

#187 Ring Tailed Lemurian

Did you see this article about Brian Cox?

No. But I've seen a couple of others. Thanks for pointing it out!

Posted by: Kel, OM | April 5, 2010 7:05 AM

that's a shame. If nothing else, can you post your takedown here? Or did you just write it in the ABC submission window and hope for the best?

Posted by: Rorschach | April 5, 2010 7:18 AM

Oh, look what happened !!

Comments for this story are closed, but you can still have your say.

I am officially not impressed with the ABC right now.

Posted by: Truckle | April 5, 2010 9:06 AM

From that Guardian article:

The great mistake the atheists made is to claim that religion started out as a clumsy stab at science – trying to explain how the world worked – and is now clearly redundant. That misses the point entirely: religion is not about explaining how an earthquake or flood happens; rather it offers meanings for such events. When someone is killed in a car accident, western rationality is good at analysing how the brakes failed and the road curved, but has nothing to say about why, on that particular day, the brakes failed when it was you in the car: the sequence of random events that kill. This search for meaning is part of what drives the religious spirit.

Ohh, I see, religion is looking for the completely useless type of 'meaning' that doesn't help anyone, or prevent such accidents from happening again, or learning how to predict earthquakes to help save lives when the event happens again...

I'm sure the Guardian puts these articles up because they know they will get lots of traffic from it... the author pretty much admits so in the article.

Posted by: Truckle | April 5, 2010 9:26 AM

If you haven't checked out Bill Baileys Belgian jazz version of the theme tune, Dr. Qui, I suggest it most strongly!

As for the new Doctor, yeh he was alright.

He must have done well cos my g/f is a scot and before watching it was very skeptical, and she liked it.

Tennant is a tough act to follow and he did well, he just needs to make it his own now, rather than try to copy Tennant completely. See how he does in the rest of the season.

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 5, 2010 10:15 AM

When someone is killed in a car accident, western rationality is good at analysing how the brakes failed and the road curved, but has nothing to say about why, on that particular day, the brakes failed when it was you in the car

That's because there is no why. You weren't singled out specifically you just perceive it that way because you think your special. You are to yourself and some people around you, but not to the universe at large. Oh just being. So existential :P

I really think there's only how. The brakes failed on that particular day because that particular day the exact conditions under which the car was likely to crash were approached. Well, unless some one cut the brake lines and then there is a good thing to ask why about. Why does some one want to kill you!?

Now transfer that possibility that some person wants to kill you into the imaginary impossible sky ghost realm and I see how religion *does* get started.

Some one tried to kill me! No one I can think of... maybe it was an invisible magic man. Damn, he's scary. I better go kill some goats and give him the entrails. Maybe that'll keep him off my back for a while.

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 5, 2010 10:20 AM

oops. I killed those blockquotes some how. Goooood morning :/

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 5, 2010 10:33 AM

I...I... I DON'T CARE ABOUT DR. WHO!!! there, I said it.

Yeah, formulaic things lose me. The girl us usually annoying. It's always the same thing.

Blah blah.

I can't stand soap operas either. Or even most television shows. I work with code all day. Some procedure, set up objects, plug in objects. It's good enough to write, but damn I wouldn't want to stare at it running all evening!!!!! That's why it exists, to spare me and other human beings the painful drudgery.

Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | April 5, 2010 11:14 AM

Hah! Snuck a comment in just as PZ closed the Design flaws support evolution thread and booted that weapons-grade moron, JohnHamilton... I enjoyed writing it... hope he reads it. ;^)

Either way, good riddance to a complete thick-headed, stubborn clownshoe...

Posted by: Nerd of Redhead, OM | April 5, 2010 11:24 AM

Praise FSM that PZ finally put the neutronium density idjit JH in his well derved and well padded cell. Ugh.

Posted by: Sastra | April 5, 2010 11:31 AM

Aha! I just got John Hamilton's point! And now PZ closed the thread down, and I can't let him know he has been understood.

But I can let others know, here.

What was his point? What was the big, fat, serious issue he wanted to expose? What acknowledgment and concession was he looking for?

Just this: in science, conclusions are considered tentative, and open to revision. They are not absolute and final, for new evidence and argument might require that they be revised.

Huh. We don't know EVERYTHING. We can't be POSITIVE, can we now? Huh? Huh? The conclusion might be confirmed to such an extent that it would be perverse to withhold assent, but still, it MIGHT be wrong. Anything is possible! You can't say you KNOW things.

And people should have the RIGHT to BELIEVE what they WANT! It's all a mystery! We none of us know! Mystery! Mystery! Just admit that, and accept other views as just as valid, as your own! Mystery!

I don't know why I didn't recognize this before. I'm surrounded by New Agers, and I live with this goddam constant refrain, always trotted out like it's some wise insight coming out of Lack of Ego, and leading inevitably to peace, harmony, and love.

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay | April 5, 2010 11:40 AM

Wow, that guy was stupid.

Not just that, he was positively aroused by the negative attention he was getting. You could tell that Christian Persecution Hard-on™ was coming up to full mast toward the end when he whinged about being "forcefully removed" by PZ. It was almost as if he was pining for it. What is it with these people equating the most mild consequences (being banned from a private website) with violence and censorship? They all read from the same hackneyed script. You'd think he was committing some act of civil disobedience and PZ was the big, bad cop slapping the cuffs on him and dragging his limp self to the clink.

I don't know how y'all put up with him so valiantly, and for so long.

Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | April 5, 2010 11:46 AM

Josh, OSG

I don't know how y'all put up with him so valiantly, and for so long.

Actually, the last part of the "debate", focusing on the evolution being both fact and theory, is an important point to make, and one that many people not familiar with evolution, or who have been programmed to think otherwise, often get wrong or don't fully understand... so I think there was some "collateral wisdom" potential there, perhaps... although maybe not in a thread that far gone...

The whole "just call it 'change' and we'll have no problem" bit was just fucking bizarre though.

Eh... also, SIWOTI.

Posted by: Josh, Official SpokesGay | April 5, 2010 11:52 AM

Celtic:

Actually, the last part of the "debate", focusing on the evolution being both fact and theory, is an important point to make,

Oh, it certainly is, and the more we can help the American (yes, it is a particularly American problem, though not exclusively) public understand that, the farther down the road they'll get to comprehending science. But many are just lost causes. It seemed apparent to me that Hamilton's m.o. was to cling to his emotional allegiances, no matter what, and to provoke the "persecution" he desperately needed to prop up that narrative.

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 5, 2010 12:14 PM

And people should have the RIGHT to BELIEVE what they WANT! It's all a mystery! We none of us know! Mystery! Mystery! Just admit that, and accept other views as just as valid, as your own! Mystery!

Wow Sastra that's deeeeeeeep. Yeah I grew up around that too.

I think the mystery refrain comforts people a lot and makes them feel intellectual about remaining ignorant too.

Win win!

There's no point in learning or trying, it's all valid man, everything I think is as good as what anyone else thinks. I should never correct myself, my mistakes, nuthin!

Posted by: Walton | April 5, 2010 12:20 PM

You do it by never forgetting that property rights must never exceed individual rights.

That's where you go wrong, Walton, by according the right of someone to own property as equal to human rights, decency and dignity.

No. I don't think it's as simple as that.

I have friends who are practising Catholics and are in gay relationships, and disagree with the Vatican's prohibition on gay marriage. Many of these couples would like to get married in the Catholic Church. But obviously, if they were to request a Catholic marriage, they would be refused. And this discrimination might well cause them emotional pain and undermine their human dignity - much more so, in fact, than being turned away from a B&B.; Yet I assume you would agree with me that the government should not enact laws forcing the Catholic Church to conduct marriages for gay couples.

In essence, there are some areas where we allow people to discriminate - because we don't, and shouldn't, trust the government to regulate every aspect of our lives and behaviour, and the price of this freedom is that some people will act in ways that we find bigoted or morally repugnant. Once we have established that anti-discrimination laws shouldn't be applied to every area of social behaviour, then the obvious debate is where the line should be drawn between guaranteeing equal treatment for gay people and respecting individual freedoms. Grayling's comments were a part of that debate.

That said, on reflection, I don't agree with Grayling. I read a post on the subject today by Iain Dale (a well-known gay Conservative blogger) and, having thought about the issue some more, I do believe that anti-discrimination laws should be applicable to B&Bs.; They are, in the end, businesses, and ought to be subject to the same laws that apply to other commercial businesses. But I think it's very important to recognise that Grayling was making a reasonable point, that his comments were in no way homophobic, and that his views do not reflect official party policy.

I am still planning to vote Conservative in the general election, and am entirely satisfied that the party is serious about gay rights. We have two gay frontbenchers, Nick Herbert and Alan Duncan. We have a large number of gay MPs, councillors and activists. Most Tories of the younger generation fully support civil partnerships, adoption by gay couples, and full equal legal and civil rights for gay people. There is still a homophobic fringe, the "Tory Taliban", but most of them are elderly and retiring at the next election.

Posted by: cicely | April 5, 2010 12:56 PM

Matt Penfold:

I am also quite sure there are people out there who consider women to be inferior to men, and they hold that belief deeply and sincerely.

And religiously. Don't forget 'religiously'.

Posted by: Carlie | April 5, 2010 1:59 PM

I have a weird family.

Quotes from a family dinner, two weeks ago:
"Well then, that's why you shouldn't play seven card stud with a magician."

"Please don't eat the juice box."

You don't sound weird at all.

Posted by: MrFire | April 5, 2010 2:10 PM

Yet I assume you would agree with me that the government should not enact laws forcing the Catholic Church to conduct marriages for gay couples.

Hmm. I feel like there is a whiff of false equivalence surrounding this argument, but I do not possess the philosphical or rhetorical tools to make the case properly.

Here's my attempt though: I don't think there is anything about running a B&B; that makes discrimination against gays/minorites/etc. an obvious and central part of the business. The purpose of a B&B; is to provide a service. To practice discrimination in the discharge of that service would an offensive policy that cannot be justified on any practical grounds. By way of contrast, it would be quite relevant and fair to turn down a drunken lout, on the grounds that they may damage your property, or injure or harass your guests.

The situation for the Catholic Church is different, even if it is more slippery to describe. Discrimination against, or demonization of, homosexuality is one of their core values, part of their modus operandi, and they cannot dispense with it. I should back up a little, though, and also point out that they do not have the same practical function as a B&B.; Their purpose is to formulate and enforce arbitrary and/or irrational rules amongst their membership (and, they hope, beyond). They are far closer to a private club than they are to a B&B;, and the former is defined by its discriminatory attitude, as opposed to the latter.

Just to be sure to wave this flag high and clear: I am not apologizing for the despicable RCC. I am trying to demonstrate how I disagree with Walton on what I believe are the terms of his analogy.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | April 5, 2010 2:18 PM

Rachel Maddow calls "bull-pucky" on the "severely edited" videos that brought down Acorn. Turns out that an investigation reveals that the main conservative "pimp" dressed as a pimp in the introductory footage, but was never dressed as a pimp when inside the Acorn offices. He wore a shirt and tie. And he never claimed to be a pimp once inside the Acorn offices. And there's the bit they didn't use when they aired footage on Fox News, the bit where an Acorn employee calls the cops to report Mr. Shirt-and-Tie, having figured him for a criminal even though he wasn't dressed in his SuperFly outfit. The investigation comes too late to save Acorn, which, with all its problems, did not deserve the conservative hatchet job.

The same episode calls bull-pucky on Climate Gate.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26315908/#36155851

It seems, (surprise! surprise!), that the conservatives cherry-picked, spun, and twisted until the story they presented was not true, not accurate, not even close.

On another topic, I enjoyed the contributions of Sven, a_ray_in_dilbert_space, Celtic_Evolution, Sastra, and others on the thread in which John Hamilton was plonked. Masterfully done. Sven linked back at one point to a comment from David M. that dealt with a creationist as only David M. can. LOL from one end to the other -- if you ignore the tragedy of that much dumbitude concentrated in the skull of JH.

I hear all the stuff JH was saying from religious friends. So, they travel in the same, mind-numbing circles.

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 5, 2010 2:25 PM

Quotes from a family dinner

*crickets*

You guys are lucky.

Posted by: Kevin | April 5, 2010 2:42 PM

@Ol'Greg:

You can come to my family's dinners *patpat*

Of course, then you might be convinced to call the men in white coats. My family is crazy.

Posted by: MrFire | April 5, 2010 2:48 PM

Me @284:

To practice discrimination in the discharge of that service would constitute an irrelevant and offensive policy that cannot be justified on any practical grounds. By way of contrast illustration,

post-hoc editing ftw

Posted by: Lynna, OM | April 5, 2010 2:51 PM

I hope I haven't missed the recipe wagon completely.

Lynna’s Sour-Cream Chocolate Cake for Camping Expeditions

This cake is dense and holds together well when transported by vehicle over rough 4WD roads. The protein content is upped to support outdoor activities.

6 tablespoons cocoa
1 cup sugar
½ cup raw cane sugar or molasses
½ cup milk
1 cup sour cream
¼ pound butter,
1 rounded tablespoon shortening
1 teaspoon vanilla
3 large eggs
1.5 cups flour
½ cup soy flour
½ teaspoon cream of tartar
½ teaspoon salt
½ teaspoon baking soda
1 cup semi-sweet chocolate chips (optional)
Butter-cream-plus-cream-cheese frosting (optional)
Pecans or almonds(optional)

Preheat oven to 350 degrees F. Butter and lightly flour a large cake pan (or two 8-inch cake pans). Combine cocoa, raw sugar and 3-4 tablespoons of water in a small pan and heat/stir gently until smooth. Remove mixture from heat and stir in milk.

In a large bowl, cream butter and shortening; add vanilla and 1 cup sugar. Beat until light; then beat in the eggs. Add the cooled cocoa mixture slowly; beat well. Ditto for the sour cream.

In a separate bowl, mix flour, cream of tartar, salt and baking soda together. Slowly add these dry ingredients to the first mixture. Blend gently until smooth. Stir in the chocolate chips (optional).

Spread the cake into the pan. Bake for 30-35 minutes. Cool in pan for five minutes before turning out onto cooling rack.

Prepare and transport separately a butter-cream frosting to which you have added a cup of cream cheese (I used to describe this as “a shitload of sour cream” but some people complained that the description was unappetizing.)

Transport separately a shitload of pecans – oh, all right, bring along a cup of pecans or slivered almonds.

In camp, cut cake into brownie-sized squares and top each square with a dollop of icing. Press pecans into the icing and pretend that “it’s supposed to look like that.” Accept the honor and appreciation that is your due.

If you want to carry individual portions in a daypack, small tupperware-like containers, or to-go cups for coffee work well. Don't worry about mess and smeared icing, as any treat experienced on the trail is transcendentally transformed into an expression of True Beauty and Taste. This is better than DeepWoo Chopra can do on his best days.

Wash down with one shot of whiskey.

Posted by: Menyambal | April 5, 2010 3:15 PM

I once was refused lodging by a Muslim hotel because I wasn't a Muslim. They had set it up to provide for fellow Muslims, and the fact that I wasn't Jewish or Christian or anything else in direct religious competition didn't matter to them. Nor did it matter to me--I wasn't even the one who thought to ask, it was a helpful travel clerk at the ferry dock.

On the other hand, I have stayed in a Jewish hostel, and was only asked to wear a yarmulka while in the building. Again, not my idea to ask.

I think someone who runs a business with a certain intent is allowed to discriminate based on that intent. Also, a business is allowed to expect proper behavior from their customers--I have seen hotel rules listed more times than I care to recall (including "No Durian Allowed").

Wanting to keep gays out is wrong, but forcing someone to accept them is wrong, too.

I dunno. Be more tactful next time, maybe?

Posted by: Celtic_Evolution | April 5, 2010 3:27 PM

Owlmirror #297

I think you give our departed ignoramus JohnHamilton too much credit... it was pointed out to him many times that the problem was his complete failure to understand the terms in the proper parlance. It was also explained to him why, as well, several times...

And I asked him to use his same argument substituting "gravity" for "evolution"... he deftly ignored that request and went right on trying to hammer home his word-game. I think he knew full well what he was doing... he was trying to catch us in a verbal "gotcha" technicality.

Posted by: Kevin | April 5, 2010 3:28 PM

Yah - I'm reading the JohnHamilton diatribe right now, Owlmirror.

I think it's the same thing as why Ray Comfort can't get it through his skull that Evolution != Abiogenesis, atheism and agnosticism are not mutually incompatible, and how not everyone who believes evolution is an atheist.

I think these people just don't understand.

Posted by: Owlmirror | April 5, 2010 3:32 PM

Eons ago, when geology ruled teh Thread, the topic turned to tufa, or carbonate precipitated under certain conditions.

There's a lake in California that was partially drained as the result of diversions to supply water for the Los Angeles area, and as a result, great pillars and towers of tufa formations were exposed.

They look pretty nifty in these photographs:

  http://www.kuriositas.com/2010/04/tufa-towers-of-mono-lake.html

Although of course, the reduced water level also lead to disasters for the ecology of the lake itself, as the page also describes.

Posted by: JeffreyD | April 5, 2010 3:40 PM

#296 - Menyambal - "I dunno. Be more tactful next time, maybe?"

Please tell me you are joking or I am reading you wrong.

Posted by: Feynmaniac | April 5, 2010 3:43 PM

Another one of JohnHamilton's (many) problems was that he didn't seem to understand that definitions are just a means to an end for scientists. Scientists don't just set up definitions for fun. They do it in order to set up a predictive theory. Often times regular language is too imprecise so they take common terms, like 'evolution', to have a specific meaning or make new terms altogether. If you are going to learn a field of science the first step you have to take is to learn the specific way that some words are used in that field. After that, you get to the really interesting/fun/hard part of learning about the theories. John couldn't even get passed the first step.

Posted by: Menyambal | April 5, 2010 3:55 PM

Sorry, JeffreyD, I was joking. Not well, apparently.

Posted by: blf | April 5, 2010 3:57 PM

… Darleks… Darleks… Darleks…

What are these Darleks of which you speak?

Methinks that if the real Daleks were to find out about them, they'd be extra annoyed and might do a starfart with efficiency of Keyser Söze.

Posted by: MrFire | April 5, 2010 4:17 PM

UK cowboys

British Gentlemen in the Old West.

Posted by: Menyambal | April 5, 2010 4:37 PM

John Hamilton was a goober of high degree, but he was oddly retro in his gooberishness. It kind of reminded me of my own childhood, when I got access to an old set of illustrated encyclopedias from England. How the set wound up in a barn loft in rural Kansas I do not know, but I do know a lot about Visigoths and polar expeditions and the River Thames. But I got a more modern education and learned to manage the meta-data of what I know and where I learned it and how much to trust it. John never got that far, evidently. He knows some stuff, knows it absolutely and will not change it. And it is old stuff.

As I tried to point out to him, he seems to think that evolution is just random. Which leads to his puzzlement about convergent evolution, because getting the same random results twice is not random. But I learned something from thinking about that (including the differences between seals and sea lions, again), and understand some things better, though that is not thanks to him.

As regards convergent marine predators: Is there ANY vertebrate marine predator in the roughly 400 pound range that is NOT shaped like a shark/dolphin/icthyosaur? (Whale-shaped icthyosaurs are sized like whales, by the way.)

Sea lions and penguins both "fly" underwater by using their forelimbs and are smaller and more agile than dolphins. I saw a vid of penguins and sea lions hunting underwater in the same place, in the exact same way, at the same time. It was beauty, and a stunning example of convergent evolution.

Hamilton was also bitching about the word "evolution" and was plainly bonkers about it, but that was another rather retro aspect of his hangups. Charles Darwin's book was titled "On the Origin of Species by Means of Natural Selection, or the Preservation of Favoured Races in the Struggle for Life." It was not titled "Evolution", nor did it use that word.

"Evolution", the word, in Darwin's time meant something more like "development", and Hamilton was hung up on clarifying the difference between the two. "Evolve", back then, implied a plan, a pattern and a purpose: "PZ sent us to trash an online poll, and the Pharyngulization is evolving nicely. When his plan is fulfilled, we shall all get Squiddy Treats." Or, if you prefer, the Earth revolves every day as it is supposed to, while the End Time evolves as Revelations foretold.

So Darwin never/seldom said "evolution" because he was trying to get across that there was no plan. We since have shifted the meaning, but John Hamilton never seemed to grasp that.

So Hamilton was hung up on a old definition of a word. Maybe. He was totally bonkers along with it, and snobbishly snotty. But, just maybe, he had read something old and couldn't replace it with something new.

A lot of folks have that problem. If the first mention of evolution that they ever hear is from a preacher blasting from a pulpit, they file evolution under evil nonsense, and they can never, ever, change that first impression.

And when I say "impression", I do not mean "just a feeling", I mean for them it is channeled into their mind with a burning iron. Some folks are just that way, and they tend to spend a lot of time in churches. And some of them come visit us.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | April 5, 2010 4:58 PM

From Mr. Fire's link @312 (UK cowboys)

This brief era was a time when Englishmen confronted the savage country and tried to wrest financial reward from it. They carried out their work with little thought of compromise or adaptation. They were described as profligate and arrogant by their critics, and their management style was flawed. But much of this was because of the long-distance communication problems with the boards of directors. Yet the technology and science of animal husbandry they introduced had a lasting effect on the development of the West. And because they bred their cattle carefully, the pedigrees were improved upon.
     Scotsmen, however, were in the real-estate business from the beginning--owning and fencing in the land they ranched. They wanted to guarantee their land tenure as they did back home. And while the return was lower, in the long run they made more money by selling off that land when the Scottish parent companies liquidated.
     The English had built their business on the public domain. They had been schooled for leadership and great enterprises, so they aimed high. The risk was greater, the annual rewards higher. But they suffered more in the end, often having nothing left but their title. They also faced the end differently. The Scots cut costs, adjusted to new environment, and turned their cattle companies into land companies. The English were no longer interested. The game was up. They packed up and left, falling back on their training as leaders. They began military and parliamentary careers. Not even much of a paper trail remained behind, as many companies did not even register to do business in the territories.
     The economy did not collapse after these hard times, despite what the industry suffered. While foreign investment was substantial, it only accounted for less than 10 percent of the ranches. By the 1890s, settlers finally came west, as did new cattlemen, though not on such a grand scale. In 1889, Montana, North Dakota, South Dakota and Washington were granted statehood. Idaho and Wyoming followed in 1890.
     And the British Gentlemen were merely memories of an era passed.

Posted by: Kel, OM | April 5, 2010 5:24 PM

JohnHamilton was one tedious person. I don't think I've ever seen someone so hung up on what they think a definition means. Didn't matter about what people were explaining to him, we were dishonest because in his world the words we used were wrong.

I thought I had encountered every type of creationist, never thought I'd encounter one who had a definition in his head and anyone who didn't use his definition was dishonest.

Gah, I'm starting to lose my patience with science denialists. Never interested in even understanding the topic at hand...

Posted by: JeffreyD | April 5, 2010 5:59 PM

Walton, I was planning to address your latest on the B&B; and general public and private issue. However, the Iraqi video thread has kind of put the lid on further thought tonight. Glad you decided that the B&B; should be subject to law as it is a business, assuming I read you right.

Posted by: Gyeong Hwa Pak, Scholar of Shen Zhou | April 5, 2010 7:55 PM

Papaya Salad.

1/2 tablespoons palm sugar
3/4 lime
2 cups green papaya, shredded
6 green beans
1 clove garlic
1 1/2 tablespoons fish sauce
1 tablespoon dried shrimp
2 chili peppers
5 cherry tomatoes

Shred the papaya but make sure there is no seeds. As soon as you get to the seeds, stop.
Crush some garlic in a mortar.
Add the Chili and pound it until your desire spiciness is reached.
Pound, too, the green beans and tomatoes, but only to get juice out of them.
Now add all the other ingredients and mix well. You can mix it in the mortar but also you can mix it in a bowl and crush the ingredients separately.

Dirty Girl Scout.

1 oz vodka
1 oz Kahlua coffee liqueur
1 oz Bailey's Irish cream
1 oz white creme de menthe or chocolate syrup

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | April 5, 2010 8:51 PM

So, at the risk of being all personal and stuff, I made a major decision over the past couple of weeks. I'm quitting graduate school. I've realized that I absolutely hate doing research, getting my PhD would still be several years down the road, and I don't want to do it. Spending the last three years spinning my wheels in educational limbo hasn't helped my sense of self, nor has it benefited me in any other way. So, I'm done with it all. Tomorrow I'm going in to tell my committee chair.

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal | April 5, 2010 9:03 PM

Pygmy Loris, that's an important decision. In light of you realizing you hate doing research, it's probably going to be a good one. So what's next?

Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | April 5, 2010 9:04 PM

Poll alert!

http://www.myfoxtampabay.com/dpp/news/my_view/0331-religion-under-attack

Do you think religion is under assault in America?
Yes, I have to keep my views to myself
47%
No, I feel free to express myself
15%
No, religion is too pervasive already
36%

You know what you doing. Move zig, for great justice.

Posted by: Benjamin Geiger | April 5, 2010 9:20 PM

Oh, and another thing. The group I'm loosely affiliated with (haven't paid my dues, but...) had an interesting time at a local city commission meeting.

The story is, the commission, despite hearing three different Christians speaking in favor of having an invocation, tried to limit Atheists of Florida to a single speech... and when that speech began, the mayor promptly adjourned the meeting.

And it's all caught on video. (Just ignore the first woman, her presentation is unrelated to the discussion.)

The police had to be called to keep certain Christian activists from attacking AoF members. ("They shall know we are Christians by our love"... yeah, right.)

Posted by: Rorschach | April 5, 2010 9:36 PM

Nebula @ 327,

how about you ask Ethan, the blogowner and author of the post ? That's what blogging is about, I'm sure he wouldnt mind explaining/expanding, and everyone gets to learn some more!

Posted by: kiyaroru | April 5, 2010 10:20 PM

I forget what I was posting about, what with the musician jokes. (A genre I was totally unaware of.) (A genre of which I was totally unaware.)

oh yeah
'Tis #331
Saint Stan is also best known for Barrett's Privateers, Giant, The Jennie C, Athens Queen, etc. etc. etc.

The airplane accident wasn't just freak, it was grotesque.

Posted by: Bastion Of Sass | April 5, 2010 10:39 PM

If you've got to indoctrinate your child with cult literature, consider this:

The Adventures of Lil’ Cthulhu

http://laughingsquid.com/the-adventures-of-lil-cthulhu/

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, OM | April 5, 2010 11:01 PM

Reading (well, glancing at, really) the Thread backwards...

Gyeong Hwa (@322):

I am so making myself a Dirty Girl Scout at my next drinking opportunity! But I'm puzzled by "1 oz white creme de menthe or chocolate syrup": Seems like the two sides of the or would result in very different-tasting drinks!

Since turnabout is fair play, here's a drink recipe I tried recently, from a Hartford Courant article about whiskey cocktails for spring:

...
Mark Twain Cocktail
From "Whiskey" by Michael Jackson.

• 1-1/2 ounces smoky Scotch, such as Highland Park 12-year
• 1-1/2 tablespoons fresh lemon juice
• 2 tablespoons simple syrup
• 2 dashes angostura bitters
• Lemon twist (optional)

In an ice-filled cocktail shaker, combine the Scotch, lemon juice, simple syrup and bitters. Shake 10 to 15 times and strain into a chilled martini glass. Add lemon twist if desired.
...

It was good (how can scotch not be good?), but a tiny bit sweet for my taste. Next time I'm going to up the scotch a touch and reduce the simple syrup (maybe to 2 oz and 1-1/2 tbsp, respectively) and I think it'll be perfect. In fact, I have some fresh lemon juice left over from tonight's risotto....

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, OM | April 5, 2010 11:58 PM

Ol' Greg (@339):

Cerberus is on my list, as well!

Posted by: Antiochus Epiphanes | April 6, 2010 12:10 AM

Pygmy Loris: It can be a goddamned bear.

Nonetheless, a PhD indicates nothing regarding thoughtfulness, intelligence, ability or inclination to do something worthwhile. If you don't love the research, you don't need it.

IMHO: You seem sharp. You'll be fine.

FWIW

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | April 6, 2010 12:22 AM

Ol'Greg, Antiochus Epiphanes,

Thanks for the support. I'm very freaked about talking to my committee chair, and I just found out that I can't go into town tomorrow to do it (car problems).

Now I just have to figure out how to turn my two liberal arts degrees into a job. Anyone know how you go about doing that?

Posted by: Menyambal | April 6, 2010 12:43 AM

Pygmy Loris, you do what seems best for you, because you know best. Good luck to you, and may the people that know you support your decision and aid you in this step.

I just had to speak words of support to a teen girl who is getting back together with her dipshit boyfriend for the third or fourth time, even though she was just about to let him go before he dropped her to date another girl. Geezum Cripes!

But for you, Pygmy Loris, I am sincere and am confident that you are doing the right thing. I enjoy your writing very much.

Posted by: Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 6, 2010 12:52 AM

Please some one help me remember to nominate Cerberus for the next molly awards.

Cerberus is on my list, as well!

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | April 6, 2010 1:00 AM

Menyambal,

Thank you so much for the kind words. The two friends I have told both said "Good for you." Yes, I do have a few good friends :)

Ol'Greg,

I don't know that much about IT. I can use the internet, MS Office, and a couple of stats programs, but that's really it.

Posted by: Owlmirror | April 6, 2010 1:24 AM

In creationist logic, Occam's Razor is used in a very bizarre way. For them, "simplest" means "can be said in the fewest words". So when someone asks, "How did humans come about?", a scientist goes on and on about mutation, selection, common descent, etc., and the Creationist simply says "God did it". Three words versus a whole bunch of words that they likely don't understand. By Creationist Brand Occam's Razor, "God did it" wins.

Oh, yes indeedy.

When Alan Clarke was still around -- indeed, when Teh Thread first began -- we were all dumbfuzzled by the sheer arrogant inanity of his attempts to invoke philosophy of science, including his bringing in "Occam's Razor", followed immediately by:

<Alan Clarke> The creationist theory explains the presence of helium by postulating, “the rocks aren’t that old”, whereas the uniformitarian theory patches itself with additional lengthy theories. </Alan Clarke>

LOL!

BTW, I don't recommend trying to think like a creationist too often. The pain is worse than a migraine.

Oh, yes. The headdesking becomes headflooring, and eventually, headbedrocking.

Posted by: Ol'Greg | April 6, 2010 1:30 AM

Pygmy, you could definitely get work with that skill set, limited as it may be. Target corporations you've never heard of, and instead of doing minimum wage or waitress jobs (unless you *prefer* them!) go to a temp or contract agency. I know some people who run contract businesses freelance to place part time workers but that's in Dallas and Austin :P What agencies handle what kind of employees varies from city to city, not just state to state. So I have no idea!

But you'd be better off getting low pay temp work but a chance to gain business/technical/clerical experience without paying for it. Also it often can lead to getting hired.

Your degree is a good stamp. It says, yeah, I went to school. Just don't put your major down so they can ask you in the interview and you can improvise to make it sound like it gives you some insight into the job.

Oh and, anthropology? Apply for HR positions and play up your people skills :D

Posted by: Menyambal | April 6, 2010 1:32 AM

P.L. Maybe you could market your anthropology as "human knowlege", kinda like psychology of various people, and get a job in Human Resources. You could probably get going in that as an assistant at an employment agency, giving tests if nothing else, or teaching potential employees new skills.

Or I could go to sleep.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | April 6, 2010 1:39 AM

Thanks for the advice guys and gals. I really do appreciate it. I'm looking at job postings all over the internet, but it's such a daunting process. I think I'm going to Career Services at my university on Thursday for help with my resume and job search. Maybe they can offer me some good advice.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | April 6, 2010 1:47 AM

Caine,

I'm glad you have some access to the outside world :) I'm sorry your husband has to make such a trek to get to work during the power outage. Have you heard anything new about when the power will be back?

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal | April 6, 2010 1:57 AM

Pygmy Loris, I'm glad I have the net too. It's a sanity saver! (Well, most of the time). :D All we got was it will be about two weeks with no power, so four days in, 10 to go. It's an inconvenience, to be sure, but that's all. I would really, really like a hot shower though.

Posted by: Menyambal | April 6, 2010 2:10 AM

PL, be sure to use your education as an example of how you are a good learner. Anybody who has the smarts that you show can probably pick up any job's peculiarities in a few days. They always ask for someone familiar with Whoosijgger '09 and mulkiflanging, but tell them that they are special people doing things that just aren't taught in school and that must be learned only from them.

(I swear that I hadn't read Ol'Greg's HR suggestion.)

Posted by: The Laughing Man | April 6, 2010 2:31 AM

scum

Posted by: The Laughing Man | April 6, 2010 3:19 AM

Did i get some sort of card where people don't read my comments? :-/

Posted by: Rorschach | April 6, 2010 4:11 AM

Did i get some sort of card where people don't read my comments? :-/

This thread had been linked to before.And I don't see any comment by you?

Posted by: JeffreyD | April 6, 2010 4:47 AM

Caine, looked into the Iraqi video thread this morning and saw your comment. Thank you. I had clicked off right after my post. Decided not to read any further in that thread as a quick perusal was kind of like touring a sewer in a glass bottom boat. That said, I do not want to drag that thread into this one, just wanted to say thanks.

Things to do, have a presentation tomorrow night to a local history group so need to sharpen that up a tad.

Posted by: boygenius | April 6, 2010 4:54 AM

From Rorschach's link @371

Between 500,000,000 and 750,000,000 humans currently do not believe in God. Such figures render any suggestion that theism is innate or neurologically based manifestly untenable.

QFT

So... Summers in Sweden and winters in Vietnam? Who's in?

Posted by: Rev. BigDumbChimp | April 6, 2010 7:55 AM

Did i get some sort of card where people don't read my comments? :-/

Well after you spamming that YouTube video for a week or so I do sort of ignore them.

Posted by: Matt Penfold | April 6, 2010 8:09 AM

Well we are know officially a month away from the General Election here in the UK.

I have yet to decide who I am going to vote for.

The current MP is a Conservative, and ones of those that is a god-botherer. He has a record of voting against bills intended to equalise the rights of gays with those of the rest of us. I cannot vote for such a bigot.

Labour are the party who came second last time, and before that they held the seat. I cannot vote Labour either.

Which leaves me with a choice of Plaid Cymru or Liberal Democrat.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 6, 2010 8:18 AM

nebula99 #327

A very good place to go for an answer to your question is the Bad Astronomy and Universe Today website. Do a search, and if you can't find a current discussion on the topic (unlikely) post a question in their Q&A; section.

Wonderful site.

Posted by: Walton | April 6, 2010 9:02 AM

The current MP is a Conservative, and ones of those that is a god-botherer. He has a record of voting against bills intended to equalise the rights of gays with those of the rest of us. I cannot vote for such a bigot.

I would have great difficulty, as a Conservative voter and secularist, if I were in a constituency where the local Tory candidate was a homophobe. There are still a few homophobes around in all the major parties, and obviously I wouldn't be able, in good conscience, to vote for someone with an anti-gay record even where I supported their party. But thankfully, most of them are rather elderly and are retiring at this election. The younger generation of Conservatives are, in general, secular and in favour of gay rights (indeed, we have plenty of gay MPs and candidates), and I will have no difficulty voting for my local Conservative candidate.

Posted by: Matt Penfold | April 6, 2010 9:38 AM

My MP, Stephen Crabb, is only in his 40s, bus as I said, his brain has been addled by religion. Which would explain his voting record on abortion as well as gay rights.

It could also explain why he such problems remembering where here lived, and decided to "swap" the residence he considered his main one just after he had spent a whole load of taxpayers money doing it up. He then got to spend a whole lot more doing up his new main residence. Being stupid would seem to be a "better" explanation than being a venal, grasping freeloader.

Posted by: Alan B | April 6, 2010 9:54 AM

#307 JeffreyD

Polls like that used to end up with #1 being the male duet from "The Pearl Fishers" - "In the Temple". Sets up the hairs on the back of the neck. Here is a version:

http://www.online-television.tv/video/Temple+Duet/zQUh_-jEn-E

Either that or Pachelbels Canon in D Major:

http://www.mp3download.ws/mp3/4fNJWATV7MX/Canon_In_D_Major/Pachelbel_S_Canon_In_D_Major/

I had the joy of sitting listening to a string group in an Atlanta hotel. I shuffled up to one of the violins, looked over his shoulder and followed along with the music - I can [just] read musicbut couldn't play a violin to save my life - kazoo is more my line.

They were blown away that:

1) I was English
2) I was interested at all (no one else was)
3) I could read music even though I couldn't play

I was invited to come into the group and asked what I wanted them to play! My own string group - from one of the top Atlanta orchestras (I guess there's more than 1) - playing requests for me alone.

I had enough sense to realise I knew nothing about string music and asked them if they would choose pieces to educate me. Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, Bartok (the Hotel guy didn't like Bartok - he appears to have had complaints or took it on himself to complain). Finally, I tentatively asked if they would play this one. Big smile from the bottom line player because all he has to play is a simple phrase repeated throughout!

Next day I couldn't hang around because of a meeting but as they saw me come down stairs they stopped what they were playing (to an audience of zero) and gave me the Canon for a second time.

Simple joys like that last a lifetime!

When my oldest daughter got married we chose a range of different music for the period when the guests were getting seated with this as the final tune before I escorted her down the aisle - quiet, graceful, solemn without being mournful.

At the end we switched to (another favourite of mine) the first 2 minutes of last movement of Saint-Sans 3rd organ symphony...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnxdpIynSLU&feature;=related

(Even better with full orchestra on good sound equipment. Probably better known now as the music at the end of "Babe")

Posted by: Matt Penfold | April 6, 2010 10:01 AM

Are Plaid Cymru still promising to burn the holiday cottages of the hated English?

I could never bring myself to vote Tory, unless it was in a two-horse race with the BNP. The Lib Dems are OK, aren't they?

Plaid never supported the arson campaign on holiday cottages in the 70s, although the people who carried it out (never caught btw) probably were Plaid voters).

I could not vote Tory either, unless like you say, it was them or the BNP or UKIP. The Lib Dems are most likely to get my vote.

Posted by: iambilly | April 6, 2010 10:38 AM

Matt: No, never made it over across the pond (and if I did, I would be hitting the war museums and battlefields). The only times I've been out of the country were trips to the Bahamas, a highjacked plane when I was 3 to Cuba, Canada on my honeymoon, and a couple of trips to New Jersey.

Posted by: Mr T | April 6, 2010 10:42 AM

This one's for Alan B at #386, since I don't feel like working right now:

Rochberg - String Quartet no. 6, mvt. 3 "Variations (on Pachelbel)"

(the Hotel guy didn't like Bartok - he appears to have had complaints or took it on himself to complain)

That's a shame, but to be fair it's not exactly what I would consider your run-on-the-mill, meat-'n-potatoes, make-the-kiddies-happy hotel lobby music (if that was the intended function). Here's a sample:

Bartok - String Quartet no. 5, mvt. 1

This next one really gets the juices flowing... puts some hair on your chest:

Schoenberg - String Quartet no. 4, mvt. 1

I'm going to stop using weird metaphors for a while.

Posted by: Alan B | April 6, 2010 11:08 AM

#393 Matt Penfold

Totally agree but the museums are distinctly mixed in quality. The Victorian town is excellent.

Fascinating geology at Ironbridge, just set up for an Industrial Revolution. In one borehole you can get:

limestone to act as a flux in iron-making

clay for ordinary bricks but also fire clay to line furnaces

iron ore

sandstone for building blocks

coal to fuel it all

and the River Severn, longest in England/Wales to power water mills, water-powered blowers etc. Also to provide transport of good to and from the area.

Also, plenty of wood in the Ironbridge Gorge.

Finally, tar. When they were digging a tunnel for a possible canal to bypass some hills they found tar oozing out of the walls - a rarity in the UK. You can walk along part of the tunnel and see the tar coming out of the walls. Daily air analysis to meet Health and Safety for a Confined Space - I asked!

Posted by: Alan B | April 6, 2010 11:27 AM

#392 MrT

Thanks for those. I will have a listen a bit later when I can relax and enjoy!!

The string group had a nice thing going - warm, light, airy environment in which to do the practice they would have done anyway - and paid for it!

One other piece to suggest - better known over the Atlantic as the theme to Masterpiece Theatre. I first heard it in a selection of baroque music on a cassette tape (remember those? - or are you too young /smile). It was entitled, "The Rage of 1703" - i.e. these were the #1 hit parade items for the year!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RW1RttAho4&feature;=related

or

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WZQG-DZy7uY&feature;=related

Lovely, bright, cheerful music!

Posted by: Alan B | April 6, 2010 11:45 AM

#395 Matt Penfold

Sounds just about right. That and the efforts of one or two key men - Dud Dudley for one. Before his time (early 1600s) the amount of iron that could be produced was strictly limitted by the amount of charcoal available. This made iron a relatively rare and expensive commodity.

Seeing the problem from the point of view of an iron master and metallurgist, he tried using coal (not very successfully) but then developed the idea of using coke and was the precursor of Arthur Darby and the other great iron producers.

No doubt someone else would have worked it out eventually but Dud seems to have got there first and helped kick-start the Industrial Revolution.

I wrote:

Fascinating geology at Ironbridge, just set up for an Industrial Revolution.

That was true also for the virtually unknown "Industrial revolution" on the Clee Hills in Shropshire where geology was the enabler. Again, coal, clay, iron ore, with dolerite in addition to sandstone for building. I'll get to the Clee Hills sometime on another incarnation of The Thread (I've already mentioned it previously when talking about the GIANTS who lived in the area.

Posted by: Paul W., OM | April 6, 2010 11:58 AM

boygenius:

From Rorschach's link @371

Between 500,000,000 and 750,000,000 humans currently do not believe in God. Such figures render any suggestion that theism is innate or neurologically based manifestly untenable.

QFT

I have to disagree. That data is very interesting, but does nothing to make me think that religion isn't due to innate tendencies of the human mind. I'm pretty sure it is.

Nobody reasonable and knowledgeable about the subject thinks that religion is simply hard-wired in and there's nothing you can do about it.

Most of the people that that argument mentions as supporting the innateness of religious tendencies don't think that, even the ones who think that we evolved to be religious in the sense that religion was positively selected for. (E.g., even David Sloan Wilson, who thinks that religion is a group-selected adaptation, but is himself an atheist and a thoroughgoing materialist.)

The moderate version of innateness is just that humans have a bunch of cognitive biases that religion can exploit. It tweaks the combined failure mode of a bunch of heuristics (unconscious rules of thumb, etc.), schemas, etc.

Those biases may just be accidental, in the sense that they evolved for something else but have odd side-effects like religion. (The "spandrel" view, well explained in Pascal Boyer's Religion Explained.) Or they may have been selected for because they have survival value. (The "adaptationist" view of religion, e.g., D.S. Wilson.) Or it may be largely the former and some of the latter.

In that sense, religion is like naive physics. ("Folk" physics.) We have some evolved-in tendencies to view the world in ways that are typically useful but often wrong in light of science. (E.g., science showing that objects in motion tend to remain in motion unless acted on by something else, rather than tending to slow and stop once the "impetus" is exhausted.)

Even if religion has been selected for pretty strongly, that doesn't necessarily mean that the tendency toward religion is very strong at the individual psychological level---fairly slight biases can be enough to make you religious, especially if there's social reinforcement and no countervailing anti-religious stuff going on in your society.

The fact that many people can be atheists doesn't mean that there aren't such innate biases that tend to favor religion---it just means that they can be overcome in the right kind of environment.

Reasonable nativists have known all along that people can be atheists. (Most of them are atheists.) Even most adaptationists think that it's a matter of biases and tendencies rather than simple hardwiring, and that culture is hugely important.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 6, 2010 12:29 PM

HTF does Dodie Stevens look this good at 64?
She doesn't even have wrinkles on her neck! Not fair.

I remember dancing to this at a neighbour's party in 1959. And sneaking two Babychams when the adults weren't looking. And getting drunk. And ending up in a cupboard practicing kissing with their daughter.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | April 6, 2010 12:45 PM

Pygmy Loris @324: All I can offer is encouragement. You thought the situation over well before you made your decision. That's the best you can do.

At the very least, you have freed yourself of the burden of completing a degree that felt like a prison to you. Unburdened, you should have more energy to look for a new path. It's going to be rough, no doubt, but not as bad as facing three years of intense effort doing something you dislike.

Individuals differ in this regard, but for me the idea of putting all my career/money-earning effort into something I dislike is actually worse than worrying about the monthly bills.

Posted by: Walton | April 6, 2010 12:58 PM

PL: I can't offer any useful advice, but I can wish you good luck with the job-search. I'm currently uncertain about my long-term career future as well, so I know how you feel.

======

Argh. I've now got myself into a serious discussion on another thread, when I should be working.

Please, people, next time I try to start an interesting argument about something, tell me to fuck off and get back to work. It's for my own good. :-)

Posted by: Carlie | April 6, 2010 1:05 PM

PL - keep us updated on how the conversation went. Brave, brave step - even if you decide to hold tight awhile longer (like if your advisor talked you into staying until the end of semester or something), you've got it out there and you've decided what to do.

Posted by: llewelly | April 6, 2010 1:39 PM

What do PZ Myers, Chris Mooney, and Francis Collins all have in common?
They are all Friends of Hitler!

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 6, 2010 2:08 PM

#410
Tee hee.

Sleazy PZ

Posted by: boygenius | April 6, 2010 2:32 PM

Paul W OM #400,

You know, you're right. Actually, as I was drifting off to sleep shortly after posting my #374, my brain clicked. (Better late than never)

Since religion is a construct of the human mind, obviously it is neurological in origin. duh.

Of course, I just figured it out by intuition without using all those big words that you used.;p

Thanks for the more in-depth exploration, as always.

Posted by: Paul W., OM | April 6, 2010 2:44 PM

Sven:

And the Thomas Jefferson award goes to...
Berlinski?!!

It also went to McLeroy, who took Jefferson out of textbooks and replaced him with Calvin!

Priceless.

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, OM | April 6, 2010 2:54 PM

PL:

I just dropped in for a couple posts last night, and missed most of the byplay about your big decision. By now, there's not a whole lot I can offer that others haven't already mentioned, but I did want to wish you the best. I, too, took the MA offramp: By the time I finished my MA, I'd been a student for my entire self-aware life, and I just couldn't face the idea of scaling yet another educational mountain. If I'd gone on to a PhD and were now a tweed-jacket-wearing middle-aged English prof at some sleepy little liberal arts college, I imagine I'd be pretty happy... but I can't imagine how I would've ever gotten myself from where I was then to that point without killing myself.

That's the thing about life: It's not enough to have a happy goal in mind; the route you travel to reach that goal must also be at least tolerable.

As for more concrete advice, I second what Sven said about teaching. Many private secondary schools care more about advanced degrees than formal teacher training, which in any case you could pick up on a post-bac basis. And there's plenty of things you could teach at the community college level without a doctorate.

If teaching appeals to you, but spending your days with roomsful of surly American youths does not, you might consider teaching English overseas. I haven't looked into in a while, but back when my Lovely Bride and I taught in Korea, all you really needed was a degree in anything, and to be a native speaker. It might not be what you want to do for the rest of your life, but it's a great way to see the world, and to save up some scratch for Whatever's Next™ (typically your employer will cover most, if not all, of your travel and housing expenses, and there are [used to be, at least] distinct tax advantages to earning money outside the U.S.).

Also, while you're still a student at your current school (presumably through the end of this term, right?), don't fail to avail yourself of whatever career counseling services they offer. Back in my day, there used to be a section of the job board in the Career Center labeled DIAM (for Degree in Any Major), and speaking as someone who works in a large aerospace engineering company, I can tell you that there are lots of folks with liberal arts degrees working in fields that you'd never think of as related to liberal arts. (Not that I imagine you want to be a middle manager at a defense firm, mind you; jus' sayin'....)

Personally, I'm about to turn 50 and will be eligible for early retirement in another 5 years... so I'm also starting to think in terms of a new career. As much as I like my current job (as jobs go, that is), I can't see myself staying in it past 25 years, so I've long planned to go for a late second (third, actually, if you count my teaching "fling") career. I've always thought I would return to teaching and try to do it right this time... but recently I've been wondering if I shouldn't look at something even more public-service-oriented: Working a congressional office, or for a charity, NGO, or social activism organization. Those jobs usually don't pay all that well, but I'd only need the equivalent of a second income by that time; maybe something along these lines would be better for you — as a stopgap, I mean — than a generic McJob.

All I can say is try to imagine what you want to be doing in 20 or 30 years, and even if you can't get on that path right away, don't settle for anything that would make that path impossible.

Posted by: Lynna, OM | April 6, 2010 3:02 PM

I may be repeating what someone else has already posted, since I don't have time to read every comment right now.

The New York Times has a long article about homosexuality in animals
Excerpt:

Various forms of same-sex sexual activity have been recorded in more than 450 different species of animals by now, from flamingos to bison to beetles to guppies to warthogs. A female koala might force another female against a tree and mount her, while throwing back her head and releasing what one scientist described as “exhalated belchlike sounds.” Male Amazon River dolphins have been known to penetrate each other in the blowhole. Within most species, homosexual sex has been documented only sporadically, and there appear to be few cases of individual animals who engage in it exclusively. For more than a century, this kind of observation was usually tacked onto scientific papers as a curiosity, if it was reported at all, and not pursued as a legitimate research subject. Biologists tried to explain away what they’d seen, or dismissed it as theoretically meaningless — an isolated glitch in an otherwise elegant Darwinian universe where every facet of an animal’s behavior is geared toward reproducing. One primatologist speculated that the real reason two male orangutans were fellating each other was nutritional.

Posted by: CJO | April 6, 2010 3:14 PM

Owl:

I replied on the Sunday Sacrilege thread.

Posted by: Becca | April 6, 2010 4:24 PM

I've had to leave the "We have seen evil, and it is us" thread - the signal to noise ratio was way beyond my capacity to handle. Somebody tell me if it gets into anything substantive.

patriotism =/= jingoism

Posted by: Sili | April 6, 2010 5:02 PM

It's been too long since I last listened to Shostakovich, but I think it's 8 and 13 that are my favourites. Possibly 10, too. (I have too poor a memory.)

've had the pleasure of hearing Bartok live, but I must admit that I'm better cut out for Beethoven.

Radio 3 is doing a Mahler cycle at the moment, but I think my favourite symphoniker is Bruckner.

Posted by: Menyambal | April 6, 2010 5:13 PM

Speaking of music, if you look up Thomas Tallis you will find some lovely multi-voice choirs of Elizabethan flavour. The first Elizabeth, not the current one. As recommended by Terry Pratchett.

Posted by: David Marjanović | April 6, 2010 5:25 PM

Have a look at the discovery of amber from the beginning of the Late Cretaceous in Ethiopia. Contains lots of organisms that hardly ever fossilize.

<kw*k>I know Vávra and Svojtka personally. Vávra is teh awesum.</kw*k>

From the closed "design flaws" thread...

It's that desire to be unambiguous which makes me want to see what a deconstructionist would do with evolutionary theory. Intuitively, I can see that it is likely anti-rationalism, but if there are areas where I'm not fully fleshing out a train of thought I'd like to know about it. Does 'text' have some specific definition that would lead to the statement that text wasn't important in science? For example, I was thinking that text here would consist of things like the scientific method, model-building in science, natural selection, experimental design elements, specific observations, etc.

None of those is a text. None of them is something you can tease an author's intents, background, prejudices out of. Science doesn't consist of performing exegesis on the works of the great Aristotle, or for that matter those of Darwin. Deconstructionism requires a text in the literal* sense, words written down by someone.

* Pedantry mode alert! Of course, "text" is a metaphor... compare "texture". Or, in parallel, compare 文 wén, which means things like "written language" and "culture" nowadays, while its basic meaning once was "pattern"

~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~

Liked your posts though DM, you should think about a career.

Unless I immediately find a tenured CNRS job, I'll need to teach anyway :-)

So just imagine how the conductor felt when he discovered there were two out, the basses were loaded, the score was tied and it was the bottom of the ninth.

I had no idea of the entire genre of musician & drummer jokes (funny as they are!)... I don't understand the quote. Is it in baseball language?

and after a REAL party
-staying away from the friends you partied with

Except one of them, I suppose...? :-)

(Of course, I'm not speaking from experience, or even from second-hand reports. I'm just imagining.)

There was rather more fuss about his new assistant who is a strippergram girl who appears as a Policewoman wearing a skirt of non-regulation length.

Pffffft. Ordinary Parisian fashion, even in winter <shudder>. I almost don't notice that anymore.

I really think there's only how.

In other words, "how" and "why" is the same thing: "everything is the way it is because it got that way" (J. B. S. Haldane).

Spamilton

LOL! How stupid of me not to have thought of this myself!

I don't know how y'all put up with him so valiantly, and for so long.

SIWOTI.

The whole "just call it 'change' and we'll have no problem" bit was just fucking bizarre though.

I think he thinks using the word evolution automatically implies the theory of evolution by mutation, selection & drift which he wants to believe is an Unproven Theory®. (I'm glad he didn't use that term, though.)

The BNP, the British Oh-no-we're-not-Nazis-HEIL-HITLER-who-said-that? Party appears to be self-destructing in an amusing fashion: BNP sacks head of publicity 'over deaths threats'. It's fortunate that the truly evil are so often truly stupid.

So well said...

"Evolution", the word, in Darwin's time meant something more like "development", and Hamilton was hung up on clarifying the difference between the two. "Evolve", back then, implied a plan, a pattern and a purpose: "PZ sent us to trash an online poll, and the Pharyngulization is evolving nicely. When his plan is fulfilled, we shall all get Squiddy Treats." Or, if you prefer, the Earth revolves every day as it is supposed to, while the End Time evolves as Revelations foretold.

Literally, e-volution means un-wrapping, and that's how development was thought to proceed back then.

Can any of you awesome physics people help a non-physicist figure out this article ? It's on scienceblogs, coming from a physicist and it seems to be claiming that the universe did not start from a singularity. Is this out of left field, or have a lot of physicists switched to this view, or do I just not understand the Big Bang Theory, or what?

Indeed it says that there was no singularity in the sense of zero size. However, it's a tiny effect, just one more little complication of Big Bang theory.

The comments, however, make clear that it's all more complicated still. And they're very confusing.

You know what you doing. Move zig, for great justice.

Do you think religion is under assault in America?

Yes, I have to keep my views to myself 49%
No, I feel free to express myself 16%
No, religion is too pervasive already 34%

Total Votes: 1,465

Please some one help me remember to nominate Cerberus for the next molly awards.

Cerberus is on my list, as well!

here, too. And I already voted for her last month, so I'm way ahead of you two. neener neener.

<sob>

As usual, it turns out I've missed something by not looking into so many threads at all (I was, rightly, afraid of lacking the time). Can someone provide links to the best comments?

Unless all of them are on the Evil thread – I'll try to check that one out tomorrow...

PL, be sure to use your education as an example of how you are a good learner. Anybody who has the smarts that you show can probably pick up any job's peculiarities in a few days. They always ask for someone familiar with Whoosijgger '09 and mulkiflanging, but tell them that they are special people doing things that just aren't taught in school and that must be learned only from them.

Bingo.

Fuckers

Appears to be pharyngulated.

scum

Someone should laugh at him for two minutes without interruption. Into his face.

And then give him psychiatric help.

Did i get some sort of card where people don't read my comments? :-/

At that time of the American night and the European early morning? Come on.

So... Summers in Sweden and winters in Vietnam? Who's in?

I'd actually prefer the opposite :-)

That's the thing about life: It's not enough to have a happy goal in mind; the route you travel to reach that goal must also be at least tolerable.

For me, that route (doctorate, postdoc) is the only tolerable one :-)

Male Amazon River dolphins have been known to penetrate each other in the blowhole.

Nasally X-D

One primatologist speculated that the real reason two male orangutans were fellating each other was nutritional.

LOL.

patriotism =/= jingoism

But I still don't understand the kind that isn't jingoism. What is it good for? Why should I somehow like the country that issued my passport more than all others?

While I am at it... For some time, the Western world assumed that patriotism was some kind of innate human urge, and it appears that lots of Americans (of almost all political orientations) still do. But it was only invented in the early 19th century, and where I come from it's mostly gone again.

Posted by: Caine, Fleur du mal | April 6, 2010 5:35 PM

We have power!

We don't have power.

We have power!

We don't have power. And so on.

This is now the 5th time the power has come on, 4 minutes and counting...*

*I'm not shutting down the generator just yet.

Posted by: Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 6, 2010 5:41 PM

Fuckers

Appears to be pharyngulated.

what ended up happening was parents organizing a secret, invitation-only prom that most of the kids went to, while the "rejects" were only told about the official prom that ended up having only a handful people attending, including the lesbian couple and some learning-disabled kids.

like I said, fuckers.

So... Summers in Sweden and winters in Vietnam? Who's in?

I'd actually prefer the opposite :-)

Posted by: Sili | April 6, 2010 5:46 PM

And why would you want to leave Sweden at all?

Posted by: Kel, OM | April 6, 2010 5:58 PM

Systembolaget.

Well I guess there's always taking a ferry to Finland and loading up on duty free booze on the boat.

Posted by: Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 6, 2010 6:06 PM

Systembolaget

Posted by: Bill Dauphin, OM | April 6, 2010 6:27 PM

This just in: Stormy Daniels, the porn star who's considering a Senate run against David Vitter, is so impressed with the RNC's taste in nightclubs that she's switching parties! I think it's hilarious that the article says the switch is perhaps satirical!

Posted by: Jadehawk OM, Hardcore Left-Winger | April 6, 2010 7:05 PM

And that young woman has so much grace under fire for her age

Posted by: 'Tis Himself, OM | April 6, 2010 7:56 PM

Pygmy Loris,

Many service companies are looking for people with degrees for supervisory jobs. Unless the job is technical (engineering, IT, etc.) what's wanted is a generic degree.

I work at a casino. Pit bosses (gaming floor supervisors) have to have a degree but there aren't any degrees in gambling. I know pit bosses with degrees in English, sociology and art history. An anthropology degree would not be a handicap for a pit boss job starting at $42K per year plus benefits.

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 6, 2010 8:22 PM

Is Norway OK? I'm going to be giving a talk in Oslo

Sinful atheists! Won't murder people, but quite happy to disobey god and kill themselves.

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | April 6, 2010 8:44 PM

Maybe I should start a blog; then I could jet around the world like Pz ;)

Posted by: Ring Tailed Lemurian | April 6, 2010 8:50 PM

Oh dear, just thought of Queen Liz renaming an aircraft carrier.
How can I sleep now?

Posted by: ambulocetacean | April 6, 2010 9:03 PM

Pygmy Loris, Screw casinos - go become a scuba instructor in Honduras.

Dahab, Egypt, has nice fishies too. Just watch out for restaurant bombers, and stay away from Sharm el-Sheikh when the peace conferences/Arab League meetings are on :)

Posted by: Pygmy Loris | April 6, 2010 9:26 PM

I did not swim around it shouting "I'm renaming this boat because the previous name is dorky!"

Oh, but you should have! That would have been the very height of awesomeness. :)

RTL,

Please don't put images of old Liz nekkid in my head. I need to be able to sleep tonight. :P